Bench test session with 2700 Kv plus motors and 6x3 EMP/TGS/KMP prop

Hi Everyone -

I recently completed a fairly significant test session going back through all the quad racing motors I have been testing that are 2700 Kv or higher and testing them with the 6x3 EMP prop.  If you click on this previous link, it will take you to the RC Timer site, these props are also available under different names TGS from Hobby King and KMP from Banggood.  I normally buy mine from RC Timer as although you have to buy them in bundles of five, they are much cheaper.

I had wanted to do this for awhile, and was finally pushed to get it done after recently bench and field testing the Hawksky AT2306 II 2750 kv motor.  You can read more about this motor, my initial impressions and bench testing at this blog post.  Here is some flight video I shot with this prop and motor.

Here is the list of 2700 and over Kv motors I tested on the bench recently.

• EMAX RS 2306 2750 Kv;
• Foxeer DATURA X2206 2700 Kv;
• BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv;
• Brother Hobby Returner R2 2205 2800 Kv;
• Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv; and
• SunnySky Edge R2305 2800 Kv. 

All of the motors except the Brother Hobby 2800 showed marked improvement in thrust while doing so more efficiently compared to the 6x4 APC gas prop.  The Brother Hobby motor performed worse with the 6x3 prop.  I suspect due to it's smaller size stator, it needs the 6x4 prop to really push the motor to better levels of performance.  You can read the full details of all the test numbers on the motor test spreadsheet.  

The EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor continues to be a very good performer and actually with this prop preferred the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees and 24 KHz PWM frequency over the more expensive HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC that it preferred with the 6x4 APC gas prop.  All of these results are on 3S.  The EMAX motor still has the best 50% throttle performance although it did not increase significantly over the 6x4 APC gas prop.  It had a significant increase of 125 gr of thrust at full throttle with the 6x3 prop.

EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor with 6x3 EMP prop, Turnigy AE-45A ESC on 3S

50% throttle - 16.4A/197.5W producing 650 gr/22.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 36.5A/416.3W producing 1200 gr/42.3 oz of thrust.

The pleasant surprise is the very inexpensive Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor.  It showed a 20 gr improvement in mid range thrust and 115 gr at full throttle.  I will keep an eye on it as it is pulling 37.1A at full throttle which might be a bit more than it is designed to handle, but anytime I see anything close to 1100 gr of thrust it makes me take notice😀

Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor with 6x3 EMP prop, Turnigy AE-45A ESC on 3S

50% throttle - 12.3A/153.8W producing 525 gr/18.5 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 37.1A/459.8W producing 1080 gr/38.1 oz of thrust.

The real star of the show is the SunnySky Edge R2305 2800 kv motor showing a 50 gr increase in thrust at mid range and a whopping 185 gr increase in thrust at full throttle while drawing 5 less amps than it did with the 6x4 APC gas prop😲  It produces the most thrust at full throttle by 50 gr compared to the EMAX motor.

SunnySky Edge R2305 2800 Kv motor with 6x3 EMP prop, Turnigy AE-45A ESC on 3S

50% throttle - 14.2A/172.5W producing 615 gr/21.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 40A/456.8W producing 1250 gr/44.1 oz of thrust.

So I am excited now to do some more field testing, first up will be the SunnySky Edge motor, it ripped with the 6x4 APC gas prop, so if the thrust is that much better with the 6x3 EMP, it should move along pretty smartly😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test sessions - 02/03 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I have been quite busy the last couple of days getting some testing done with the HobbyWing Platinum 40A ESC PRO I received a few days ago.  I will warn you ahead of time, there are a lot of numbers being thrown around here and on the spreadsheet linked below, so towards the end I have tried to distill out what I think are the best settings for each ESC for the motor I tested today.

You can read more about my initial thoughts and initial testing with this ESC here at this blog post.

Yesterday, I decided to test several of the quad racing motors I have (a couple didn't get tested as they are in planes right now and I was a bit too lazy to pull them out 😳)  I tested these motors with all the default settings just like I had tested the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor mentioned in the blog post above.  I was quite surprised when the numbers were quite a bit lower than they were with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC.  Bit of a headscratcher, especially in the mid range power.  You can read the numbers on my motor spreadsheet, click on the tab labelled Quad racing motors.

So I reached out to rcplanepirate to get some ideas why there might be this reduction in performance.  He reminded me of a conversation we had awhile back that some experimentation would probably be required with this HobbyWing ESC as it has so many options for settings.  He suggested trying different timing options and also switching the PWM frequency settings.  So this morning I got some batteries charged, got out the thrust stand and away we went😊

The following texts are quoted from the HobbyWing ESC manual regarding timing and PWM frequency settings.  As you can see, a lot of options for timing.

Timing:  0 degrees/3.75 degrees/7.5 degrees/11.25 degrees/15 degrees (factory default)/18.75 degrees/22.5 degrees/26.25 degrees.

Usually, low timing value is suitable for most motors.  But there are many difference among structures and parameters of different motors so please try and select the most suitable timing value according to the motor you are just using.  The correct timing value makes the motor run smoothly.  And generally, higher timing value brings out higher output power and higher speed.

PWM Frequency:  12KHz/8 KHz, default is 12KHz.
For some motors with high Kv (high speed) and many poles, the 12KHz PWM frequency may let them work more smoothly.  But the higher PWM frequency will make the ESC hotter.  Generally the 8KHz frequency is suitable for most motors.

Now, having read that, not to put my "whiney pants" on, but there are a lot of generalities there.😒  All the motors ran smoothly in the brief tests, so I'm not sure exactly what is supposed to happen when they don't run smoothly, might have to find that out in the air.  Second, if the 8KHz frequency is suitable for most motors, why is it not the default PWM frequency?!  Head scratching continues...you will see more what I mean later in this post😏

So to capture everything all together, I created a new page on the motor spreadsheet called ESC testing.  I chose one motor, the Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv as it is kind of in the middle of the pack of the quad racing motors I have tested thus far, bolted on a 6x4 APC prop and got to work.

I also decided to test this motor on the three ESC timing settings (low, medium, high) with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC as I had not done that and was interested to see if there were any major differences.  Interestingly enough, this is what it says in the Plush ESC manual about timing settings (nothing about PWM frequency, so I might have to try and research that a bit more).

Timing:  Low/Medium/High (3.75 degrees/15 degrees/26.25 degrees), default is low.

Usually, low timing or medium timing is suitable for most motors.  In order to get higher speed and bigger output power, please choose High timing.

Interesting, as you will see from my tests, no huge difference and in fact low timing is the best with this motor with the Plush ESC.

So with the HobbyWing ESC, I went through every timing setting initially with the default 12KHz PWM frequency.

Nothing really jumped out at me here, the mid range power was still significantly lower regardless of the timing setting with this PWM compared to the Plush 40A ESC on low timing.  The Plush mid range thrust was still better than any setting by 12 grams or more.  Full throttle settings were all relatively close, nothing that really stood out a whole lot as the timing setting rose, the full throttle thrust did increase until the top level of 26.25 degrees where it seemed to fall off a bit at both top and mid levels😐.

So then I started over, changing the PWM frequency to 8KHz.  This is when I noticed a big change, especially at 50% throttle.  Right away I noticed an increase in mid range power, even at the lowest timing setting.  The lowest mid range power at 8KHz is still 10 gr higher than the highest result at 12KHz and it continued to climb steadily as the timing settings went up, peaking at 43 grams more than the highest mid range thrust at 12KHz.  There wasn't as big an increase in full throttle power, 10 grams more thrust at full throttle at 8 KHz than at 12KHz at the maximum.  Fortunately, at 8KHz, the best mid range and full throttle numbers are at 26.25 degrees timing.

Although there is not a huge difference at 8KHz between 22.5 degrees and 26.25 degrees of timing, at 26.25 degrees it produces a bit more top end thrust at 0.6 less amps drawn.

So looking at the Turnigy Plush numbers, at high timing it produced 3 gr more thrust at mid throttle, but less 10 gr less thrust and pulled 31.2A to do so.  Looking at the numbers, I will stay with low timing for this ESC.  In order to easily compare, here are the best numbers for the Plush ESC with timing at low compared to the HobbyWing ESC with it's best setup.

Plush

50% throttle - 11.5A/141.5W producing 487 gr/17.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.8A/352.3W producing 935 gr/33.0 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing ESC with timing set at 26.25 degrees and PWM frequency set at 8KHz.

50% throttle - 12.3A/149.7W producing 508 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.6A/369.5W producing 948 gr/33.4 oz of thrust.

So while this process was a bit tedious programming the HobbyWing ESC using the transmitter between each test, I learned a lot and it was worth it to go through the process.  Thanks again to RCPP for the tips and ideas.

The HobbyWing ESC does seem to allow the motor to wind up just a tiny bit faster than the Plush, although it is tougher to tell with the motor on the bench, field testing will be necessary to see if this converts into better acceleration.  I have already put this motor in my "beater" RC Powers Su30 V4 and will do field tests comparing the Plush and HobbyWing ESCs on my next available flying day.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session - 01 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I did some more bench testing today to keep filling in the data on the Banggood 2212/6 2200 Kv motor that I refer to as the "park jet workhorse".  Additionally, I received new HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO ESCs in the mail today, so I wanted to see if there is a difference between those and the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC I currently test with.  You can read more on my initial impressions of the HobbyWing ESCs along with some test comparison numbers at this blog post.

You can read the full details of all of today's testing on the first page of the updated motor test spreadsheet.

In addition to comparing the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs with the same 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery, today I tested the Hobby King knockoff 6x4 APC style electric prop and the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop, again the numbers are available in the spreadsheet link above😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO Brushless ESC initial review and test

Hi Everyone -

After five weeks of waiting, I received my HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO ESCs from Banggood😀  When I purchased mine, they were on special from the China warehouse for $31.46 USD, they are now $40.16 from the China warehouse and on offer until 28 Feb 2018 for $21.59 from the Banggood US warehouse.  Thanks Banggood😒 😉

I will be comparing it a lot to my current favorite ESC the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC from Hobby King, so from this point I will just refer to them as the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs when comparing.  Here it is out of the package, it comes with 3.5mm bullet connectors already attached and two pieces of pre cut heat shrink to use on the battery leads which I though was a nice touch.

A closeup of the label.  Please note where it says "USB supported" in orange as this will be discussed later in the post.

Close up of my current Turnigy Plush 40A ESC which I think is new to me, but I bought it a couple years ago as the BEC available on the new Turnigy Plush according to the link above now has a 5A BEC.  It sells for $23.91 USD currently, I think I paid less than $20 the last time I bought one from HobbyKing as they have been so durable.

The HobbyWing comes with a very large set of instructions, it definitely has more programmable features than the Plush and can be far better optimized for helicopters reading through it briefly.

After soldering on the XT60 connector and heat shrink, I weighed both ESCs, all the wires are the same guage and same length, so no surprise they ended up the same weight.

As you can see in the following two pictures, they are pretty much identical in size and look identical other than the color of wires and heat shrink.

The HobbyWing is rated to have a 10 second burst of up to 60A, the Plush 55A I assume for 10 seconds as well, I couldn't find a number on the website or in the manual.  Setting the throttle points is the same for both.  Turn on the transmitter, advance the throttle to full, connect the battery, wait for the two solid beeps, place the throttle at zero, then the ESC arms as normal.

Programming

This is where things get a bit interesting😐  The manual for the Hobbywing says "Several kinds of Program Cards are supported", unfortunately, it doesn't support the two cards I have, including the one made by HobbyWing...hmmmm😞  As you can see in these pictures, it does light up the card, but when I tried to make any changes to see if the card would work, it failed to work with both cards even though it indicated it had taken the change😲.  That actually doesn't matter that much to me as the factory defaults are what I want anyway😀

As I mentioned earlier, it can be programmed using a different interface unit available from Banggood for $29.45 USD.  I will probably pass on that for now😉

So I was doing a bit of bench testing anyway, so I had to see if there was any difference between the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs.  I used the same Banggood 2212/6 2200 Kv motor as I have been using for all tests and the same 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery (Links to those are available on this test spreadsheet)  Here are the numbers.

Plush ESC

50% throttle - 10.6A/129.1W producing 440 gr/15.5 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 26.2A/307.5W producing 885 gr/31.2 oz of thrust.

Hobbywing ESC

50% throttle - 9.9A/123.4W producing 433 gr/15.3 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 28.1A/326W producing 912 gr/32.2 oz of thrust.

So mid range not a whole lot of difference, the HobbyWing certainly did allow the motor to wind up a bit more at full throttle although drawing more amps, however another full oz of thrust is interesting😉.  What was noticeable was throttle response, when I advanced to full throttle from zero, it wound up almost immediately, noticeably faster than the Plush.  It certainly took me by surprise, in a good way😏  Although as I mentioned, the Plush is an older version, it is brand new out of the package in the last month since I got my new thrust stand, so it has not had much use.  

So I am pretty excited now to get this into a plane and see how it performs under some stress at the field.😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session - 27 Jan 2018

Hi Everyone -

Thrust stand was busy again today, I wanted to catch up testing the quad racing motors that I hadn't tested yet on the new thrust stand.  All tests done with the 6x4 APC gas prop, Turnigy Plush 40A ESC (timing set to low) and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C batteries.

You can find the detailed and updated spreadsheet by clicking on this link.

Motors tested today with the numbers at 100% throttle -

• DYS MR2205 2750 Kv (Hobby King) currently $15.60 USD (thanks to rcplanepirate, I got mine on sale for $8.60👍)  29.8A/358.6W producing 820 gr/28.9 oz of thrust;
• Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv (Hobby King) currently $28.14 (again thanks to RCPP, I got mine on sale for $16.10 😊) 31.9A/384.7W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust;
• RC Timer FR2306 2650 Kv (RC Timer) $11.99 USD 30.9A/351.7W producing 878 gr/31.0 oz of thrust; and
• RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv (RC Timer) $10.99 USD 28.0A/322.5W producing 849 gr/29.9 oz of thrust.

Interestingly, the motors below 2700 Kv all have thrust numbers that match up in order with how I rated them in this blog post compared to the Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv motor with the same prop.  Just for comparison, at 100% throttle, the Racerstar 2600 numbers are 31.7A/385.7W producing 982 gr/34.6 oz.

The DYS MR2205 2750 Kv numbers are disappointing, but not surprising.  rcplanepirate and I had discussed this motor off and on after he tested his second one that perhaps DYS had produced a bunch of 2300 Kv motors but put the 2750 Kv bell on by mistake 😒(if you click on the highlighted 2300 Kv, it will take you to the HK website where the DYS MR2205 2300 Kv motor is listed).

Comparing it to all the other quad racing motors I have tested, it is actually less powerful than the RC Timer 2205 2550 Kv motor as it produces 1 oz less thrust and is supposed to have 200 more Kv!😲  I put it in the category of motors above 2700 Kv because of how it is labelled, but the closest motor to it in that category is the Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor which pulls two more amps, but produces 6.3 more oz of thrust!  Something not quite right there.  The DYS 2205 2750 Kv might still be a good light little motor if you weren't looking for a ton of power, but I certainly wouldn't pay full price for them when I can get a Racerstar 2700 for $8.99 that produces a whole bunch more power.

Still waiting on three more quad racing motors to test on the bench and in the air

• BrotherHobby Returner R4 2205 2700 Kv (another motor I got on sale😀, regular price $25.99 USD, I got mine on a Black Friday sale for $17.99;
• Sunnysky Edge R2305 2800 Kv (again on sale, regular price at AliExpress $41.80 (what?!😲), I got mine for half price at $20.90, current price at Banggood is $23.71 (regular price); and 
• DYS Samguk Shu 2306 2800 Kv motor regular $12.58 USD at time of writing on sale for $9.90.

I'm most excited about the last two with the size and high Kv.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session - 20 Jan 2018

Hi Everyone -

My new thrust test stand had quite a good workout yesterday😊

I decided to change up a few things as I turned a new leaf with my bench testing protocol.  I soldered some connectors on a brand new (i.e. never before used) Turnigy Plush 40A ESC since this more closely represents what I will use in my planes with props I plan on using.  If I'm in doubt, I can still use a 60A ESC to have the "amp overhead".

I have also created a new test spreadsheet which will be streamlined and focus more on motors that I currently might use in my park jets.  I changed things up a bit, when you click on the words "new test spreadsheet" above it will take you to the spreadsheet which I created in Google Drive.  I added columns for battery voltage before testing and after 50% throttle test and 100% throttle test.  rcplanepirate RCPP and I have discussed this variable off and on in our discussions, so I decided to add it in to see what is happening with the batteries I use for testing.

I kept the 50% throttle test in to allow me to see what is going on in the mid throttle range, I let the motor run for about 5 seconds at 50% throttle, this also allows the thrust to "stabilize" a bit more at that throttle setting and I suppose represents launching the plane and getting established before making the first "speed run" at 100% throttle where I also hold the throttle for 5 seconds to allow the thrust to stabilize.

I tested seven motors yesterday, the swapping of motors once I got the hang of it wasn't as much of a pain as I first thought it might be in my initial impressions post about my new thrust stand.  I'm not going to worry about comparing numbers to my old thrust test setup at this point, suffice it to say, those old numbers were quite inaccurate, especially at full throttle, so this is a bit of a "do over" on some of the motors.😏

I tested the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor as a bit of a benchmark, and also to compare the three different brands of batteries I currently use, you can see the results on the first page of the spreadsheet.  I will continue to fill that in as I retest this "workhorse" motor with a wider variety of props.

For the new tests on the quad racing motors, I used my new Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C batteries to give them a bit of a workout and get a couple charge cycles through them.  I also grouped the quad racing motors in those that are 2700 Kv and above, and those that are less than 2700 Kv, you will not they have their own page on the spreadsheet to make it easier to compare them.

These are the numbers for each quad racing motor at 100% throttle with the 6x4 APC gas prop using the Gens Ace battery to allow for a bit of discussion/comparison.  A few of these motors had not been bench tested before as I was waiting for the thrust stand to arrive.

Quad motors of 2700 Kv and above

• EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv - 38.1A/434.7W producing 1088 gr/38.4 oz of thrust;
• BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv - 34.9A/422.4W producing 1095 gr/38.6 oz of thrust;
• BrotherHobby Returner R2 2205 2800 Kv - 33.9A/389.7W producing 1017 gr/35.9 oz of thrust;
• Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv - 31.8A/369.0W producing 998 gr/35.2 oz of thrust;
• Foxeer DATURA X2206 2700 Kv (still waiting to be field tested) - 38.4A/459.2W producing 1062 gr/37.5 oz of thrust.

Quad motor below 2700 Kv

I only tested one motor below 2700 Kv, my favorite of this group thus far😊

Racerstar BR2406S 2600 Kv - 31.7A/385.7W producing 982 gr/34.6 oz of thrust.

The EMAX and BeeRotor motors are very close in top end thrust, but this does make a bit more sense when after reading the results on www.miniquadtestbench.com they are both actually 2630 Kv motors.  However, after looking at their respective mid range numbers, it helps me understand a bit better why I gave the edge at the field to the EMAX motor.

EMAX at 50% throttle - 16.9A/204.7W producing 642 gr/22.6 oz of thrust;

BeeRotor at 50% throttle - 15A/181.5W producing 598 gr/21.1 oz of thrust.

Of course the EMAX motor eats up quite a few more amps to produce this power, but this makes more sense now about the slight edge in performance in the air.

The Foxeer DATURA looks like it has serious potential to be a real powerhouse for such a light motor even though it too is a bit "amp hungry", I'm excited to field test that next.

Just basing it on the numbers, the two Racerstar motors are quite a bit closer in bench performance than I expected.  Based on how I saw it spin up on the thrust stand, the BR2406S 2600 still has the most low end torque of all the quad racing motors I have tested thus far, that slightly bigger stator and bell size do seem to make a noticeable difference.

Thus far I'm pleased with how this new thrust stand is working out, much easier to get things set up and collect the data than perhaps I initially expected.  Much more testing to come in the coming weeks as new motors arrive and I evaluate different props with each motor😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

RC Lander thrust test stand initial impressions

Hi Everyone -

Miraculously, in less than three weeks (fastest shipping time I've ever had from Banggood), my RC Lander Outer Rotor Motor Thrust Stand Measuring Table Tester arrived in the mail today.  Good grief, where do they come up with these long complicated names for things?!😕 😵😲

Of note, compared to what is shown on the Banggood website when you click on the link above, in the "instructions" that came with my stand and the video I link below, how my motor will mount on the stand is completely different.  As you can see in this closeup of part of the instructions, it shows "Turnigy" on the thrust stand in the picture and the motor mount is above the plate that connects to the bearings that help measure the thrust.

Although as I will describe later this will make it a bit more of a pain to mount motors on the stand for testing, perhaps having the shaft of the motor better centered with this top plate will make for better results?  Not sure, but I'm hopeful😉  Some pictures of the inside of the "brain" where the batteries go (requires 2 AA batteries).

 

You need to use a 1.5 mm hex driver to undo the four small bolts to take the cover off the battery/brain compartment.  Bolts are small, so be careful not to misplace them😳  The stand comes with no hardware for mounting the motor to the stand.  Fortunately, I still had lots of mounting bolts from all the quad racing motors I have purchased.  The plate is 5 mm thick, I used 7 mm bolts and it seems secure enough, but I might try to find some 8 mm bolts just to be safe.  Here is what I mean about needing to remove the plate to secure the four bolts on the motors.  The motor plate is held on by two bolts (you need a 2 mm hex driver to remove this plate).

So this might become a bit of a pain over time and I will have to be careful with the two bolts as they are the only thing holding the mounting plate to the thrust stand.  The "instruction" sheet is nothing more than a description of the stand, so off to YouTube to get some good info.  I find many of Bruce Simpson's reviews at RC Model Reviews to be very helpful, so I watched this one.  The pictures in the "instructions" almost looked more like the motor was mounted in a pusher configuration, whereas it needs to be in a puller or tractor setup.  I suppose I should do a little more research to see if there is another way to mount my motors on this stand since it is slightly different than the Turnigy stand in the video (just the mounting plate, everything else is identical pretty much).

Due to how my table is setup in my work area, I will have to mount the stand on some pieces of wood not only to add some more weight, but to give it clearance to swing a 6" prop.  Sitting flat on the table, a 6" prop does not have sufficient clearance.  If I bolted the stand to my table so the prop hung over the edge, not only would the numbers be facing away from me on the meter, the prop wash would blow everything around on the left side of my table 😨  So a little work before it will be up and running, but I have some scrap wood in my shed that will do the trick😊.

Thrust can be measured in either grams or oz, I will probably go with grams and then convert later for my spreadsheet.

So I'm not sure how big a difference there will be between testing in tractor versus pusher (pusher being what I use in my park jets), but I think anything has to be better than the crude set up I was using before😉😲

Weather is better for bench testing than flying, so I hope to have some data gathered soon😃

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

EMAX AVAN-R 5065 3 blade quad racing prop "discussion"

Hi Everyone -

The postman brought me another package today, some EMAX AVAN-R 5065 3 blade quad racing props.  I have titled this blog post as a "discussion" more than anything else as you will see later when I start reporting the bench performance on 3S, I don't think these props will find their way into any of my park jets😐  However, I thought I would discuss them anyway as a matter of a lesson learned, I'm sure I can find someone at my field to take them off my hands unless I do experiment with a 4S setup in the future😏

Banggood did package them up nicely with lots of foam wrapped around the package as you can see above.  Below, you see that you get 4 props, two CW and two CCW as you would expect for a quad copter along with more EMAX stickers😊

So a bit of background on why I purchased these props, they were $4.29 USD for the pack of four from Banggood and my research had indicated these props were specifically designed for use on the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor  which thus far has been the top performer of all the quad racing motors I tested.  I had tested a Gemfan 6x4x3 quad prop on the 2212/6 2200 Kv "workhorse" motor in the past, it generated incredible thrust on the bench (34.9A drawn producing 1039 gr/36.7 oz of thrust), but the blades were too big and created quite a bit of drag in the air.  I had hoped that with a smaller blade but higher pitch, I might see some better results.

The prop certainly has an interesting blade shape with almost a bit of a "winglet" at the tip.  I put each of the props on the balancer and they were perfectly balanced right out of the package.

I had a bit of trepidation about mounting the prop "upside down" for use in a park jet due to the blade shape and these fears were proven correct.  I had to place an old spacer ring from a 6x4 APC prop to keep the blade off the flat top of the motor and as you can see in one of the pictures below it was still a very snug fit while still allowing enough thread on the shaft exposed to secure the prop to the motor.

In this picture, it looks like the prop is still resting on the top of the motor, there is just a "whisker's" width there, however, part of the prop blade is blocked by the motor itself. 

Here are the bench numbers for this prop on the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor with the prop mounted "upside down".  Tested with a Turnigy Plush 60A ESC with timing set to low and a Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C battery.  Further details on all the bench testing that follows can also be found on my motor testing spreadsheet. 

50% throttle - 15.5A/185.3W producing 274 gr/9.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 36.2A/429.3W producing 448 gr/15.8 oz of thrust.

So these results are very poor and inefficient, almost 2A required for every oz of thrust produced at full throttle.  Compared to the 6x4 APC gas prop numbers of 32.4A/371.2W producing 812 gr/28.6 oz of thrust, this is a pretty sad performance😏

So while I had everything set up, I decided to give it a test on the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor .  I know based on EMAX's data this prop isn't designed for this motor, but I suppose a prop is a prop at the end of the day😉  The top of the Viking motor slopes away quite a bit from the shaft and after adding a spacer ring again, I ended up with about 4mm between the prop blade and the bell of the motor.

So here are the numbers with this motor and prop, again, same test parameters as above.

50% throttle - 14.7A/176.8W producing 304 gr/10.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 30.3A/348.9W producing 526 gr/18.6 oz of thrust.

So the numbers were a bit better considering this is a lower Kv motor, I suspect the prop having some more room to "breathe" might have helped, but still pretty bad compared to the 6x4 APC gas prop numbers (29.5A/359.5W producing 836 gr/29.5 oz of thrust at full throttle).

So I gave it one more chance on the GearBest 2212/5T 2700 Kv motor, hoping that the extra size/torque and high Kv might produce a "miracle" 😇  Alas,  even with increased "prop clearance", twas not to be😊.

Same test parameters as the first two, here are the numbers 

50% throttle - 14.2A/171.8W producing 378 gr/13.3 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31A/354.7W producing 630 gr/22. oz of thrust.

6x4 APC numbers for this motor on 3S at full throttle are 32.1A/370.6W producing 1004 gr/35.4 oz of thrust.

So it is certainly not the prop's fault, I was trying to use it in a role it was never designed for.  It is designed to be used right side up and most quad racing guys are using 4S or higher with the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor.  Perhaps with a 4S battery I'm sure it would produce more thrust, but it has a long way to go to make up ground on the 6x4 APC gas prop for the role I need it to play in my park jets.

My challenge to myself when I started this quad racing motor test craze was to find a motor and prop combo that would give me the performance I see in my park jets on 3S, so unfortunately this prop doesn't fit the bill.  I do have some other 5" 3 blade quad racing props on the way to try, one never knows until one tries😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Initial field testing of the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor

Hi Everyone -

Had the reliable test bed Mig-35B out for another good session yesterday putting the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor from Hobby King through it's paces😊

As mentioned in the video below, you can read more about my initial impressions and the bench testing data I gathered here .

Here is the video

During this blog post, I will be comparing this motor to the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor (which I will shorten to EMAX 2306), the BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv motor (which I will shorten to BR2207), and the RC Timer FR2306 2650 Kv motor (which I will shorten to RCT2306).

As mentioned in the video, this motor was recommended to me by rcplanepirate and he gave me the notice when the price dropped significantly from $28.14 USD to $16.10, so I am thankful to him for the info😊  Please click on his name to go to his YouTube channel, he has done considerable testing of all kinds of motor, props, EDFs, etc, lots of great info there.

This motor is a great little motor for use in a park jet from what I saw yesterday over more than a dozen flights.  After I shot the video, I flew several more flights and now rank this one number 3 of the motors I have tested thus far.

1. EMAX 2306;
2. BR2207; and
3. Multistar Viking 2208 2600.

The EMAX 2306 seems to be the clear winner in weight, power, acceleration and top end speed, not by a whole lot over the BR2207, but still better.  The Multistar Viking is just slightly behind the BR2207 in acceleration and top end speed, but weighs the same.  It has about equivalent torque to the RCT2306, but much better top end speed.

This motor is a good fit for a park jet, I will be interested to evaluate it's performance against the DYS BE2208/7 2600 Kv motor I currently use in my RC Powers F-22 and F-18 V5s.  Here is a picture of the two of those motors side by side.  You can see the significant difference in size of the bell and once all the hardware and prop are attached, the Multistar Viking is 6 gr lighter.  That will be an upcoming "fly off" at the field to see which is better😊

As I mentioned, I'm very pleased with this Multistar Viking motor and I'm very happy that I got it on sale.😉  For it's full price of $28.14, if I wanted to add another motor to my collection, I would opt for another EMAX 2306 ($21.99 at Hobby King) or the BR2207 ($16.99 at RC timer) as they are both a bit more powerful, faster and of course cheaper.  If it outperforms the DYS 2208, I would definitely keep a close eye for it to go on sale again to pick up another😊

Another great find and thanks again to rcplanepirate for the recommendation.  Next up for testing will be the Racerstar BR2406S 2600 Kv motor which I will write about my initial impressions in the next few days perhaps after the "Christmas craziness" is over😂

Wishing you a very Merry Christmas and safe and happy holiday season, thank you so much for your kind, humbling support on this blog and my YouTube channel, it keeps me motivated and inspired to do more experimenting, testing and passing along my park jet lessons to you.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Initial field testing of the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor

Hi Everyone -

I had this little beauty out for several flights today, putting the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor through it's paces😊

Here is the flight video, I had to put is at a link as it wouldn't load directly from YouTube...😒

Here is the link to my initial impressions and bench testing blog post I mention in the video.

Today I was running the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C battery with this motor with the 6x4 APC gas prop.

This motor performed really well today, as good or better than the bench test numbers I reported in my initial impressions post.  It certainly performed better than the RC Timer 2306 2650 Kv motor in my last video and is probably the highest torque (or at least feels like it has the highest torque) of the quad racing motors I have tested thus far.  Perhaps the high Kv also helps it feel like it has a little extra torque, but it "muscled" it's way through every challenge I presented it with😊  Certainly not to make the RC Timer 2306 sound like a bad motor, it is not, but this EMAX motor certainly performed better than I expected even though it only has 100 Kv more and the stator is the same size.

As mentioned in the video, it has about the best "hole shot" of acceleration when I hammer the throttle.  The one motor that would be the closest in this aspect that I have tested thus far is the BeeRotor Z2207 2780Kv motor from RC Timer.

As I mentioned in the video, where I noticed the biggest difference over all the other quad motors I have tested thus far is mid range speed and efficiency.  At 60% throttle, it felt faster than any of the other setups, to the point I reduced my throws in the roll axis (both elevon and aileron) by about 10% so I could stay smooth on the sticks and "keep up" with the plane.  I've flown with other motors that have about 17 oz of thrust at 50% throttle, but this one just seemed to really maintain it's energy in the range where I spend most of my time when flying.  This motor is putting out 17.6 oz of thrust at 50% throttle and the plane weighs about 19.8 oz of thrust, so that is 0.9:1 thrust to weight ratio, just at mid throttle and I feel like I am getting all that thrust in that throttle range😎

In high speed runs and vertical climb outs, it maintained it's speed and energy really well, showing plenty of torque going straight up, it just kept going straight up with no lag, sag or complaints from the motor.

As I mentioned in my flight video, I have now ordered some Turnigy AE 45A ESCs from Hobby King to try with this and other high Kv quad racing motors.

Watching this video from rcplanepirate, he is getting over 1200 gr of thrust with the same prop on 3S.  Granted his thrust test setup and battery are different than mine, but that should not account for 400 gr difference in thrust I wouldn't imagine, so I can only think it is the ESC he is using which is a Turnigy AE 65A, that is helping with that much increase in performance.  If you fast forward to about 7:50 in the video, you can watch RCPP's test of this motor with a 6x4 APC gas prop on 3S.

So all things being equal since I have field tested all my quad racing motors on the Turnigy Plush ESCs on low timing in either 30A or 40A size, this motor is the best thus far by a slight edge over the BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv from RC Timer.  This motor has a bit better mid range speed and efficiency when "yankin' and bankin'" around than the Z2207, "hole shot" acceleration and top speed are about the same which makes sense as their bench test numbers are almost identical.  

I'm excited to keep thrashing this one about, it ran strong all day, no problems whatsoever, and being as light as it is, even 3 gr lighter than the Z2207 motor, EMAX has seems to have really done their homework on getting every bit of power out of each gram of motor weight.  And considering it is rated at 58A according to the specs on the Hobby King link, there is a lot of potential there😃

If you want to see all the bench test numbers for all the quad racing motors I have received thus far, please go to this motor test spreadsheet, the quad racing motors have their own tab along the bottom so you can compare them easily.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

6x4 APC gas prop - the new "super prop" for park jets?

Hi Everyone -

If I was to give my reward for "Park Jet prop of the year for 2017", it would have to be the 6x4 APC gas prop 🎆  I've only just come to start using this prop in the last month or so, but it has been a real game changer for me in the performance of my planes across the board.  Again, I must thank rcplanepirate from the UK who has done and continues to do a massive amount of prop and motor testing.  I encourage you to go check out his channel here.  It was from watching one of his videos that I decided to give this prop a try and haven't looked back since 😄

If you watch my YouTube channel, you have heard my excitement over this prop already, but I wanted to shoot a "discussion" video of why for me this is definitely my new "best" prop across all the motors I have tested with it already.

Here are the links I discuss in the video which are also in the comments if you watch the video on YouTube, but since you have taken the time to read my blog, I'll put them here.  The link to rcplanepirate's YouTube channel and to where I buy my 6x4 APC gas props are already in the first paragraph.

The prop discussion video I mention by rcplanepirate was very educational and thought provoking for me and he also shows bench testing at the end which is very interesting.  Starting at about 27:10 in the video, he tests a 6x4 APC electric prop followed by the 6x4 APC gas prop, slightly more thrust and less current draw.

Here is a list of links to the motors discussed in this video, the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor I discuss in this video is essentially exactly the same as the popular Turnigy D2826/6 2200 Kv motor other than price.  I have found from experience they are interchangeable in my planes with little to no difference in performance.

2212/6 2200 Kv motor  Banggood consistently has the best price around, although you might find them cheaper on EBay, but for $4.99 USD, tough to beat the price😊  You do need to provide your own connectors with these motors to connect to your ESC as they don't come with them.  In the very near future, I will be doing a video and article on this "workhorse" of park jet motors.

DYS BE2208/7 2600 Kv motor  This motor is a bit more expensive than a couple others on this list, but it is light, powerful and has very smooth bearings.

A2212/5T 2700 Kv motor  A real powerhouse for the price at $6.43 USD, you do need to provide your own connectors again.  It is available all over the internet.  I have tested ones from EBay and Banggood, however the two I got from Banggood ran insanely hot on 3S, so if you buy from them, please check the motor regularly after use for heat build up.

BeeRotor BE2207 2780 Kv  This is one of the first couple of quad racing motors I picked up for testing in park jets, it is light and powerful but the least efficient of all the motors mentioned in the video.  However, it really cranks out great power with the 6x4 APC gas prop.

As mentioned, I maintain a Park Jet motor test spreadsheet that you can save as a bookmark and refer back to when you need to.  I have kept this up for a few years now, so there are lots of other motors on that spreadsheet as well where you can see the test data I collected if you have one or are considering buying one.  As I add test data to the spreadsheet when my quad racing motors arrive on the slow boat from China, I will be writing blog articles and letting folks know that the spreadsheet has been updated.  The current date will always be updated on the first page of the spreadsheet so that you can know which version you last reviewed.

So last year I guess my "prop of the year" would have been the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 and I still like it with the lower 2200 Kv motor depending on the plane and flight performance I seek, but it is limited to motors at or below 2600 Kv in my experience.  So the 6x4 APC gas prop is definitely a winner for versatility for me as well as thus far it has performed exceptionally well regardless of the Kv of the motor.

So I encourage you to check it out if you can get hold of a 6x4 APC gas prop.  I certainly get no "kickback" for recommending them, but you might find for the expense of a couple extra bucks that it might be a big game changer for the performance of your park jets as well😎

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom!

Cheers,

Scott