RC Powers F-18 V5 motor change number...5?! ;) - 26 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

Had these two steeds out today ripping up the skies😎

Here is flight video of the F-18 V5 using the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor, 6x4 APC gas prop, Turnigy AE-45 ESC on 3S.

If you are interested in more of the details on my latest bench testing session with this powerful little motor as recommended to me by rcplanepirate, please go to this blog post.   If you would like to see results with this motor tested with several other props and on 4S, please check out rcplanepirate's YouTube channel.  

If you are interested in more details about my F-18 V5 as it is modified from the original plans, please check out this blog post.  

As mentioned in the video, I am running custom settings on the Turnigy AE-45A ESC of 22.5 degrees for timing and 24 KHz for PWM frequency.

I was really impressed with this setup, in the past I had run the DYS BE2208/7 2600 Kv motor with both the 6x4 APC gas prop and the Master Airscrew 6x4x3, the Grayson Hobby Super MegaJet V2 on the MA 6x4x3, the 2212/5T 2700 Kv motor with 6x4 APC gas prop.  This Viking motor setup runs the smoothest, strongest and most powerful of them all and is lighter than any of the others.

After I shot the video, I ran this motor/ESC combo pretty hard, flying 10 consecutive flights without a break.  The motor ran smooth and consistent and although the temperature was cool at 5 C/41 F, the motor and ESC were barely warm.  For a smaller motor that is lower Kv than many I have tested, it has considerable torque, perhaps the longer 8 mm stator helps with this and the fact it produces 600 gr/21.2 oz of thrust at 50% throttle.  Towards the end of the flight session, the wind picked up to about 5-10 mph and it powered through without issue, I didn't have to really play around with the throttle much at all over flying in calm winds.

I was also impressed by the smooth delivery of power throughout the throttle range provided by this motor/ESC combo.  With some setups I have tested occasionally, you get kind of "dead spots" in the throttle range (no matter how many times I set the throttle points) where it just doesn't respond that well or you get some motor/ESC combos that the difference between about 80 and 100% throttle is not noticeable.  Not with this setup, the throttle response is very quick and precise.

As mentioned in the video, the F-18 V5 while not a slow poke at all is the "draggiest" plane in my hangar, so having a light powerful motor with lots of torque really makes for an awesome flight experience😀  While a bit pricey at $28.70 USD (price just went up by $0.56 😒), if they go back on sale again (I paid $16.10 for mine), I might pick up another as a spare.

As I have to find homes for all of these quad racing motors I have been testing, I think for sure I will leave this motor in this plane for awhile so that I can get some durability testing done.  It is certainly one of the best overall quad racing motors I have tested thus far and I think has a lot of potential to be pushed harder on 4S maybe or run with a wider variety of props than I use.😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

What difference does a stiffer prop make?

Hi Everyone -

Yesterday I was doing some bench testing with the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor, and by mistake made an interesting discovery😏  You can read more about that testing on this blog post.

One of the props I tested was the 6x4 KMP prop which I discovered sometimes have a bit of a quality control issue which I wrote about in this blog post.

Essentially, here are pictures of the two props when I bent them, first the bad prop.

This is the good prop, I had to push on the hub to get it to bend this much, so it is the stiffness it is supposed to be😊 

As I was doing the testing, I saw the "bad" prop laying on my very clean, well organized work bench...NOT!!!😬😳😵, anyway, I assumed it was the good prop and put it on and did a test.  Then as I as changing it out for another prop, I was surprised how flexible it was and realized my error.  I dug the good prop out of my flight box where I had left it after some field testing and put that on and retested that😉  These numbers are using the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz of PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency on 3S.

"bad" prop results

50% throttle - 17.6A/216W producing 555 gr/19.6 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 38.4A/434.3W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

"good" prop results

50% throttle - 15.2A/184.4W producing 585 gr/20.6 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 36.7A/428.1W producing 1065 gr/37.6 oz of thrust.

I had always known that more flexible props were inefficient, but due to my error and having received on bad prop from Banggood, I am now able to see clearly the difference as these props are identical other than their stiffness.  It is fairly easy to see that the flex in the prop not only produces less thrust, but causes the system to work much harder by drawing more amps to produce this thrust.  Then as the throttle setting/RPM get higher, there is an even larger difference in results.

Over time as I have experimented with props, the stiffer the prop normally results in better power and efficiency as well as a prop that runs more quietly, but nice to see numbers that back that up😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor bench test session - 24 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I did a bit more experimenting with testing the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor today with a couple of different prop and ESC combos.  In bench and field testing, this has proven to be the most powerful quad racing motor under 2700 Kv that I have tested and in fact one of the most powerful overall.  It has reached 1000 or more gr of thrust with six different combos of props and ESCs on 3S, however one of them I probably would not use due to the quite high amp draw at full throttle.  It is one of the few quad racing motors that I have tested to show results that high at full throttle.

You can read the results of the testing on my motor test spreadsheet, by scrolling along the bottom, you will find the tab for this motor to see the results.  I have highlighted in light green the best setup for each ESC I have tested with thus far.  I did not test it with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A with these props below as I have that dedicated right now to another plane and might never run this motor with that ESC.

Today I tested with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and Turnigy AE-45 ESCs using the 6x4 KMP and Master Airscrew 6x4x3 props.  You can find links to these ESCs and props on the spreadsheet.  The KMP has produced some very good numbers on the bench, I only have one of them right now, so I haven't done a lot of field comparison just yet.  I tested the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop as I had run that a lot on the DYS BE2208/7 2600 Kv motor a lot in the past, so I wanted to see how this motor made out with it.

So I saw some pretty decent results.  With the Plush ESC, the 6x4 KMP produced some good mid range and top end results, better on the bench than the 6x4 APC gas prop.  Although the MA 6x4x3 produced slightly better top end thrust, it's mid range results dropped off considerably compared to the other two props and I know from experience that third blade does cause some drag in the air.  So it would be a matter of field testing the 6x4 KMP and 6x4 APC gas to decide which was the better performer for my flying style.

With the Turnigy AE-45 using the custom settings I found of 22.5 degrees for timing and 24 KHz of PWM frequency, again the 6x4 KMP had very good bench results, significantly more top end thrust 65 gr/2.3 oz than the 6x4 APC gas, but slightly less (15 gr) mid range power.  Mid range efficiency is pretty much the same with both these props pulling the same number of amps.  At full throttle, the extra 65 gr of thrust required 0.8 more amps drawn, so not too bad.

With the AE-45 ESC, the MA 6x4x3 has good top end thrust, again over 1000 gr (1035), but comes at a big amp penalty, drawing 40.7A or 11% more amps than the KMP prop and produces less thrust, so I don't think I would use this prop with this ESC.  Hobby King rates this as a 39.1A motor, I personally think it could handle more than that, but if I have another prop that produces more thrust for less amps, I'll go with that all day.  As well, with a significant loss of mid range power (45 gr less than the 6x4 KMP), it makes that decision even easier😊

So I am thinking about using this motor on a project I am currently pondering for the near future, so good to know I have a couple of options of props to try out, I will probably at this point go with the Turnigy AE-45 and evaluate the 6x4 KMP or 6x4 APC gas.😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

DYS and Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv bench test showdown

Hi Everyone -

I have been slowly catching up with bench testing since receiving my new thrust stand😊

For over a year now, I have been using the DYS 2208/7 2600 Kv motor in several of my park jets and have been enjoying it's power and versatility running a few different props on 3S.  Through my recent period of bench and field testing motors, I have also been experimenting with the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv quad racing motor.  Here is a picture of the two motors side by side, the Viking motor on the left, the DYS motor on the right.

Some basic comparisons before talking about bench and field performance.

Weight - With all the mounting hardware and props, the DYS motor weighs 56 gr/2.0 oz, the Viking motor weighs 52 gr/1.8 oz;

Price - The DYS motor currently sells for $17.22 USD from Banggood, shipping is free.  The Viking motor sells for $28.14 from HobbyKing and shipping is not free.  Fortunately, I picked mine up on sale for $16.10, so that was a bonus😀

The DYS comes with connectors already attached, so it is ready to go out of the package.  The Viking motor requires you have and can attach your own connectors.

Both accept the standard 16x19 mm bolt pattern "X" mount for installing in a park jet.

So how did they perform on the bench?  You can find all the details here on my motor test spreadsheet, but I will discuss a few things below.  I will compare the numbers for the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC, 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery (links to all of these are on the spreadsheet).

DYS 2208 2600

50% throttle - 11.6A/141W producing 485 gr/17.1 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 28.4A/330.5W producing 915 gr/32.3 oz of thrust.

Multistar Viking 2208 2600

50% throttle - 13.5A/163.2W producing 570 gr/20.1 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.9A/384.7W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

Both motors are equally as efficient (ie producing equal ratios of thrust to amps drawn) at 50% and 100% throttle.

So you can see a very significant increase in performance with the Viking motor.

So diving into the specs a bit deeper, the DYS motor I'm assuming has 7 turns of wire around each stator pole.  It is a darker color than on the Viking (sorry, because of the motor construction of both, very hard to see in a picture) and does look like it might be very slightly thicker.  The Viking motor seems to have a bit neater wire application around the stator arms, not that the DYS is sloppy, the Viking is just neater.  The magnets are flat on the DYS motor, the air gap between the magnets is the same as the Viking, the gap between the stator and the magnets is noticeably larger on the DYS motor than the Viking.  Bearings on both seem equally smooth.

The DYS motor is rated for 2-3S, shows a max amp rating of 43.1 using a 7x5 prop on 3S.  Whenever I see the top amp rating pulled from a chart as the max amp rating, I get a little suspicious, the manufacturer should probably have a bit better idea than that I would think.  It is also showing a max wattage of 478W which again they just pulled from their test table.

The Viking motor just seems a little better finished with tighter tolerances.  The magnets are N50 which are fairly strong, the industry standard for higher end motors currently is N52 (higher the number, stronger the magnet)  The magnets are curved and the tolerance between the stator and magnets is very tight.  It has a top amp rating of 39.1 which seems like a strange number, it says it is rated for 4S and 630W which is a big increase in wattage over the DYS motor.

The Viking motor is definitely more of a racing motor which you would hope so for the price😏  If you look at the thrust numbers using the higher end HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC with the settings I found optimum for higher Kv motors, the thrust jumped to 1015 gr/35.8 oz, an increase of 45 gr of thrust over the Plush performance.  With the DYS motor, it only jumped up to 935 gr/33.0 oz, an increase of only 20 gr of thrust over the Plush settings.

I suspect that the Viking motor is running much closer to it's rated Kv, perhaps the DYS motor not so much.  I have run the DYS motor quite a bit with the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop and it handled that well, not as fast as the 6x4 APC gas prop, but gave a bit softer feel, almost like the throttle had a little bit of expo if you just wanted to cruise around.

So price does become a bit of an issue, it is worth a little less than 5% increase in performance for a 60+% increase in cost?  I guess only the purchaser can decide.  I have had some quality control issues with the DYS motors, 3 of 4 I purchased run about equal, one has very stiff bearings and runs about 20% less powerful than the other three.  

The Viking motor seems much better made and did perform better on the bench and I think has a lot more potential for power with some experimentation with props, batteries and ESCs, plus it is rated to handle 4S.  If you find it on sale like I did at cheaper than the DYS motor, it is definitely worth a try😀

So next up, time to put them in a plane and do a showdown at the field 😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

EMAX AVAN-R 5065 3 blade quad racing prop "discussion"

Hi Everyone -

The postman brought me another package today, some EMAX AVAN-R 5065 3 blade quad racing props.  I have titled this blog post as a "discussion" more than anything else as you will see later when I start reporting the bench performance on 3S, I don't think these props will find their way into any of my park jets😐  However, I thought I would discuss them anyway as a matter of a lesson learned, I'm sure I can find someone at my field to take them off my hands unless I do experiment with a 4S setup in the future😏

Banggood did package them up nicely with lots of foam wrapped around the package as you can see above.  Below, you see that you get 4 props, two CW and two CCW as you would expect for a quad copter along with more EMAX stickers😊

So a bit of background on why I purchased these props, they were $4.29 USD for the pack of four from Banggood and my research had indicated these props were specifically designed for use on the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor  which thus far has been the top performer of all the quad racing motors I tested.  I had tested a Gemfan 6x4x3 quad prop on the 2212/6 2200 Kv "workhorse" motor in the past, it generated incredible thrust on the bench (34.9A drawn producing 1039 gr/36.7 oz of thrust), but the blades were too big and created quite a bit of drag in the air.  I had hoped that with a smaller blade but higher pitch, I might see some better results.

The prop certainly has an interesting blade shape with almost a bit of a "winglet" at the tip.  I put each of the props on the balancer and they were perfectly balanced right out of the package.

I had a bit of trepidation about mounting the prop "upside down" for use in a park jet due to the blade shape and these fears were proven correct.  I had to place an old spacer ring from a 6x4 APC prop to keep the blade off the flat top of the motor and as you can see in one of the pictures below it was still a very snug fit while still allowing enough thread on the shaft exposed to secure the prop to the motor.

In this picture, it looks like the prop is still resting on the top of the motor, there is just a "whisker's" width there, however, part of the prop blade is blocked by the motor itself. 

Here are the bench numbers for this prop on the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor with the prop mounted "upside down".  Tested with a Turnigy Plush 60A ESC with timing set to low and a Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C battery.  Further details on all the bench testing that follows can also be found on my motor testing spreadsheet. 

50% throttle - 15.5A/185.3W producing 274 gr/9.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 36.2A/429.3W producing 448 gr/15.8 oz of thrust.

So these results are very poor and inefficient, almost 2A required for every oz of thrust produced at full throttle.  Compared to the 6x4 APC gas prop numbers of 32.4A/371.2W producing 812 gr/28.6 oz of thrust, this is a pretty sad performance😏

So while I had everything set up, I decided to give it a test on the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor .  I know based on EMAX's data this prop isn't designed for this motor, but I suppose a prop is a prop at the end of the day😉  The top of the Viking motor slopes away quite a bit from the shaft and after adding a spacer ring again, I ended up with about 4mm between the prop blade and the bell of the motor.

So here are the numbers with this motor and prop, again, same test parameters as above.

50% throttle - 14.7A/176.8W producing 304 gr/10.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 30.3A/348.9W producing 526 gr/18.6 oz of thrust.

So the numbers were a bit better considering this is a lower Kv motor, I suspect the prop having some more room to "breathe" might have helped, but still pretty bad compared to the 6x4 APC gas prop numbers (29.5A/359.5W producing 836 gr/29.5 oz of thrust at full throttle).

So I gave it one more chance on the GearBest 2212/5T 2700 Kv motor, hoping that the extra size/torque and high Kv might produce a "miracle" 😇  Alas,  even with increased "prop clearance", twas not to be😊.

Same test parameters as the first two, here are the numbers 

50% throttle - 14.2A/171.8W producing 378 gr/13.3 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31A/354.7W producing 630 gr/22. oz of thrust.

6x4 APC numbers for this motor on 3S at full throttle are 32.1A/370.6W producing 1004 gr/35.4 oz of thrust.

So it is certainly not the prop's fault, I was trying to use it in a role it was never designed for.  It is designed to be used right side up and most quad racing guys are using 4S or higher with the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor.  Perhaps with a 4S battery I'm sure it would produce more thrust, but it has a long way to go to make up ground on the 6x4 APC gas prop for the role I need it to play in my park jets.

My challenge to myself when I started this quad racing motor test craze was to find a motor and prop combo that would give me the performance I see in my park jets on 3S, so unfortunately this prop doesn't fit the bill.  I do have some other 5" 3 blade quad racing props on the way to try, one never knows until one tries😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Initial field testing of the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor

Hi Everyone -

Had the reliable test bed Mig-35B out for another good session yesterday putting the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor from Hobby King through it's paces😊

As mentioned in the video below, you can read more about my initial impressions and the bench testing data I gathered here .

Here is the video

During this blog post, I will be comparing this motor to the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor (which I will shorten to EMAX 2306), the BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv motor (which I will shorten to BR2207), and the RC Timer FR2306 2650 Kv motor (which I will shorten to RCT2306).

As mentioned in the video, this motor was recommended to me by rcplanepirate and he gave me the notice when the price dropped significantly from $28.14 USD to $16.10, so I am thankful to him for the info😊  Please click on his name to go to his YouTube channel, he has done considerable testing of all kinds of motor, props, EDFs, etc, lots of great info there.

This motor is a great little motor for use in a park jet from what I saw yesterday over more than a dozen flights.  After I shot the video, I flew several more flights and now rank this one number 3 of the motors I have tested thus far.

1. EMAX 2306;
2. BR2207; and
3. Multistar Viking 2208 2600.

The EMAX 2306 seems to be the clear winner in weight, power, acceleration and top end speed, not by a whole lot over the BR2207, but still better.  The Multistar Viking is just slightly behind the BR2207 in acceleration and top end speed, but weighs the same.  It has about equivalent torque to the RCT2306, but much better top end speed.

This motor is a good fit for a park jet, I will be interested to evaluate it's performance against the DYS BE2208/7 2600 Kv motor I currently use in my RC Powers F-22 and F-18 V5s.  Here is a picture of the two of those motors side by side.  You can see the significant difference in size of the bell and once all the hardware and prop are attached, the Multistar Viking is 6 gr lighter.  That will be an upcoming "fly off" at the field to see which is better😊

As I mentioned, I'm very pleased with this Multistar Viking motor and I'm very happy that I got it on sale.😉  For it's full price of $28.14, if I wanted to add another motor to my collection, I would opt for another EMAX 2306 ($21.99 at Hobby King) or the BR2207 ($16.99 at RC timer) as they are both a bit more powerful, faster and of course cheaper.  If it outperforms the DYS 2208, I would definitely keep a close eye for it to go on sale again to pick up another😊

Another great find and thanks again to rcplanepirate for the recommendation.  Next up for testing will be the Racerstar BR2406S 2600 Kv motor which I will write about my initial impressions in the next few days perhaps after the "Christmas craziness" is over😂

Wishing you a very Merry Christmas and safe and happy holiday season, thank you so much for your kind, humbling support on this blog and my YouTube channel, it keeps me motivated and inspired to do more experimenting, testing and passing along my park jet lessons to you.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Viking Multistar 2208 2600 Kv motor initial impressions

Hi Everyone -

I recently received my Viking Multistar 2208 2600 Kv motor in the mail from Hobby King😊  It came very well packaged surrounded by foam.  It is regularly priced at $28.14 USD from the Global Warehouse, but fortunately due to a notification from rcplanepirate, I got it on sale for $16.10 USD😂

It comes with one prop nut and four mounting screws to secure it to a quad copter, the motor wires are about 3" long. 

A couple more pictures, if has a very nice finish and the bell spins smoothly.

Before putting the prop on, I took a picture comparing it to the DYS 2208/7 2600 Kv motor as they have the same size stator.  You can see that the Viking motor has much less metal at the top and the bell is very close to the stator.  I couldn't take a picture that would show you, but when I look down inside the motor from the back, the magnets on the Viking motor are narrower, but much closer together than they are on the DYS motor.  When I spin the Viking motor, it spins smoothly, but the magnets feel much stronger than the DYS motor.  After doing a bit more research and from results of my own testing thus far, magnet size and spacing as well as whether the magnets are curved or straight is something I will be paying more attention to moving forward in my evaluations of quad racing motors for park jets.

With the prop, connectors and other hardware on, it weighs 50 gr/1.8 oz which is 6 gr lighter than the DYS motor in the same configuration.  Like the other motors, you will need to provide your own "X" mount and bullet connectors.  

Here are the initial bench test numbers with the 6x4 APC gas prop, Turnigy Plush 60A ESC (timing set to low) and Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C battery.  More details can be found on the motor spreadsheet, quad racing motors have their own tab along the bottom.

50% throttle - 13.5A/164.4W producing 482 gr/17.0 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.5A/359.5W producing 836 gr/29.5 oz of thrust.

These numbers are slightly less than the bench numbers I saw with the DYS 2208 2600 motor, but it will be interesting to see when the "rubber hits the road" so to speak at the field.  I am currently running the DYS 2208 2600 with the 6x4 APC gas prop in my RC Powers F-22 V5 and F-18 V5 and it moves them along really well.

I hope to field test this motor very soon to see how it performs relative to the other quad racing motors I have tested thus far😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom

Cheers,

Scott