Tattu R-Line 1550 4S 75C batteries initial impressions and testing

Hi Everyone -

I received a couple of Tattu R-Line 1550 4S 75C batteries in the mail a couple days ago to experiment with some serious speed in my park jets😀

These batteries have a very good reputation from what I have read and watched on YouTube, they were not cheap, but I only bought a couple for some experimentation and serious speed fun!

I went with this small size as I didn't want to pay a big weight penalty, so even though my flights will be short, they should be fast😉  The batteries weigh 186 gr/6.6 oz.  The normal 2200 3S batteries I use weigh 192 gr/6.8 oz, so my planes should still be pretty light to help them be fast. 

I already did some quick testing for a modified RC Powers Su-30 V4 I am building specifically for speed.  Here is a short video I shot discussing this testing.  You can watch more about this special build by going to this playlist on my YouTube channel.

As discussed in the video, the only successful test was with the EMAX RS2306 2750 kv motor using the 6x3 EMP prop and the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC with custom settings of 26.25 degrees timing and 8 KHz PWM frequency.  You can see the full details on my motor test spreadsheet, but here are the numbers for the combo I mentioned with this new Tattu 4S battery.

50% throttle - 21.8A/346.5W producing 940 gr/33.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 54.8A/860.2W producing 1630 gr/57.5 oz of thrust.

WOW!  That is a 45% increase in thrust over the best mid range power on 3S and 36% increase at full throttle!😲

Until my 5" props that I have ordered show up, this is the setup I will experiment with.

Here are the 5" props I have ordered based on watching rcplanepirate's video on his testing of the EMAX RS2306 2750 kv motor and his personal recommendations. I pasted this list in from the comments of this video.

Hobby King

HobbyKing 5040 GRP/nylon prop https://hobbyking.com/en_us/glass-fib... Dalprops "Indestructible" Bull Nose 5045 V2 https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dalprop-5... Diatone Bull Nose Plastic Propellers 5 x 4.5 https://hobbyking.com/en_us/diatone-b... Banggood DALPROP 5045 Bullnose PC Propeller https://www.banggood.com/2-Pairs-DALP... Gemfan 5045 5 Inch Propeller Bullnose https://www.banggood.com/4PCS-Bullnos... KINGKONG/LDARC 5040 Propellers https://www.banggood.com/10-Pairs-KIN...

So I am excited to get to the field and start experimenting with these new batteries and this setup in a plane, it is going to be scary fast!😳

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Initial impressions and bench testing of the Hawksky AT2306 II 2750 Kv motor

Hi Everyone -

I received my Hawksky AT2306 II 2750 Kv motor in the mail today😀  I picked mine up from Banggood, $22.37 USD, took about 4 weeks to get here with free shipping.

It comes complete with 4 mounting bolts that you would use to mount in on a quad or anything I suppose as well as one prop nut, no bullet connectors as you can see above.  It is pretty light, the motor wires are 90 mm long and with no hardware, the motor weighs 30 gr/1.1 oz.

It has a "naked bottom", so no actual full base plate.  Bolt pattern is 16x19 mm, so the same as a standard "X" mount for use in a park jet.

The Banggood website has very little info on the magnets, etc, they do look curved, a pretty tight tolerance between the magnets and stator.  The bell spins freely, but I can feel that the magnets are pretty strong.  Not sure how many windings it has, the wire is quite thick compared to some other motors of this size I have tested.  As you can see, to remove the shaft, there is a small hex bolt rather than a "C" clip, although it does not come with spare bolt like some other motors I have tested.

The outside of the bell has very small ridges, I am not sure if this is to help with motor cooling.  It is available in green like the base is shown above or all silver like I went for and is also available in 2500 Kv (same price though😉)

With the prop and all other hardware it weighs 44 gr/1.6 oz which is pretty light, about the lightest motor of this size I have tested by about 4 gr.

Bench testing

You can go straight to the motor test spreadsheet for the full details if you would like, I'll touch on some highlights below.  I tested it initially with the 6x4 APC gas prop and the full throttle amp draw was quite high ranging from 43.9 to 47.7A depending on the ESC and the thrust numbers were a bit disappointing compared to other motors of the same size and Kv.  I probably would not fly with the 6x4 APC gas prop as the amp draw would be pushing the ESCs past their base rated limit in all three cases.

So I decided to "prop down" and ran the same tests with the 6x3 EMP prop from RC Timer.  Here are the best numbers using the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz PWM frequency using a Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery.

50% throttle - 17.6A/217.5W producing 646 gr/22.8 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 42.3A/485.1W producing 1215 gr/42.9 oz of thrust.

So for initial field testing, I will use the 6x3 EMP prop and the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC for consistency.  Even with the Turnigy Plush on default settings the results were quite good with the 6x3 EMP prop.

50% throttle - 17.3A/211.5W producing 624 gr/22 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 39.7A/451.6W producing 1155 gr/40.7 oz of thrust.

As I continue to fill out my spreadsheet, I will go back and test several of the other 2700+ Kv props with the 6x3 EMP prop to see the results.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom 😎

Cheers,

Scott

Monster bench test session - 18 Feb 2018 :)

Hi Everyone -

I managed to get quite a bit more bench testing done today to fill in the blanks with several of the quad racing motors I had not tested on custom settings with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A and Turnigy AE-45A ESCs.  For all the complete details, you can go to my motor test spreadsheet.  I used the 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery for all testing, links to these are on the spreadsheet.

I will go through the motors that I updated today and what I tested.  I used custom settings on both ESCs mentioned above based on testing I have done already with a few other motors.  With the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A, I used timing setting of 26.25 degrees and PWM frequency of 8 KHz.  For the Turnigy AE-45A ESC, I used timing of 22.5 degrees and PWM of 24 KHz.  I must caveat that the Plush I am currently using is the V3.1, Hobby King currently sells the V4.2, so perhaps the numbers would be better with the V4.2 than mine.

2212/6 2200 Kv

I tested this motor with the HobbyWing ESC with the custom settings above and saw an increase in the mid throttle power over the previous best combo of the AE-45A at factory default of 23 gr at a cost of a 2A increase in amp draw, but then saw a 25 gr drop in full throttle thrust.  I think for this motor, just the simple "plug and play" of using the AE-45A default settings is the best way to go.

Foxeer DATURA X2206 2700 Kv

This motor is quite interesting as the differences in thrust and amps drawn is not huge between the Turnigy Plush, HobbyWing and AE-45A ESCs.  About 20 gr more mid range thrust with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, a little bit more top end thrust with the AE, so since the AE is the least expensive of the three ESCs, this makes me happy and I would probably run this with the AE ESC.😊

BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv

Again, not a whole lot of difference between the three ESCs with this motor, a bit more mid range power with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, actually less top end power and it becomes quite amp hungry at full throttle with the AE ESC at full throttle producing a bit less power than the Plush.  I will have to experiment, I like that the AE does have such good results again as it is the least expensive of the three.

BrotherHobby Returner R2 2205 2800 Kv

Again, probably personal choice here, although with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, it has slightly better mid range and full power though quite a bit more amp hungry at full throttle with both these ESCs compared to the Plush.  The numbers for the HobbyWing and AE ESCs are identical in thrust at mid and full throttle, the HobbyWing is a bit more efficient at mid and full throttle, but considering it is almost twice the price of the AE, I would probably opt to use the AE again in this case.

As I transitioned to the lower Kv motors, this is where I started to see the biggest improvement in performance compared to the numbers with the Plush.

Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv

This motor performs better at mid and full throttle with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs.  Best top end thrust with the HobbyWing (15 gr more than the AE) with the custom settings, slightly better mid range with the AE (only 10 gr increase).  This is the most expensive motor I have tested (although I got mine on sale😀) and is the most powerful at mid range and full throttle of the motors below 2700 Kv, so it is good that it performs so well with the less expensive AE ESC.

These next two RC Timer motors are seriously happy with the Turnigy AE ESC😀

RC Timer FR2306 2650 Kv

Although this motor did show very good improvement with the HobbyWing ESC, the AE performance edges it out in mid range, full throttle and price😉  It shows incredible improvement over the Plush ESC when using the AE ESC at 50% throttle, a 62 gr improvement in thrust with only a 0.5 increase in amps.  At full throttle, it improved by 102 gr!😲with a 2.7A increase in amp draw, but this takes the motor to it's limit, it is rated as a 33A motor, it is drawing 33.6A which I think will be fine, I look at it as this motor being fully optimized using the AE ESC with the custom settings as it will probably pull much less than that in the air.😊

RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv

This is the first quad racing motor I experimented with, so I was really happy to see the increase in performance here😊  The numbers with the more expensive HobbyWing are very good and a definite improvement over the Plush, but the AE numbers are the best.  I saw an improvement of 66 gr of thrust at mid throttle for an increase of only 0.6A draw and a 111 gr increase in thrust at full throttle for only 2.3 more amps drawn😲 and the motor is still under it's amp limit of 32A😀

I don't want to draw a whole bunch of conclusions just yet until I get a chance to get out and field test most of these motors with the Turnigy AE to ensure they run smoothly in the air.  It seems that 2200-2600 Kv motors is where the biggest improvement in performance happens when using the AE ESC compared to the Plush ESCs I have been using.  This is good news as other than the Multistar Viking, these are all fairly inexpensive motor, so if pairing them with an inexpensive ESC improves their performance, that is not only optimizing their performance, but getting the best bang for the buck!😊

Other than the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor, the rest of the motors at 2700 or higher Kv thus far are fairly happy with any of the ESCs, although mid range power is typically better with the AE or HobbyWing ESCs.  However, it did take quite a bit of testing and experimenting to find this, as you can see with some of the motors I have tested, with the higher Kv motors, factory default settings with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs leave a lot to be desired.

I do have some other very high Kv motors on the way to test which perhaps will also like the HobbyWing ESCs better, but from a cost standpoint, if most of them still run really well with the Plush or AE ESCs, that will be a cost saving as the HobbyWing ESCs are very good, but also quite expensive at $40 USD.

More testing to come, but this whole process continues to be very educational😁

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Bench testing Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv motor with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC - 16 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

Now that I have the issue solved with my Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv motor (you can read more about that at this blog post😳), I decided to run it through some testing with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC.

You can read the full details on my motor test spreadsheet.  By scrolling along the bottom, you will find a tab that says ESC testing using this motor.  I had already run a full series using the Racerstar BR2306 2700 Kv motor, you can find the tab for that motor along the bottom of the spreadsheet as well.

By doing the testing on the BR2306 2700 motor, it gave me some clues where not to bother wasting time testing the BR2406 2600 Kv motor, but I ran the motor on the factory defaults for the Turnigy AE-45A ESC anyway (15 degrees timing, 12 KHz PWM frequency).

So, for discussion, here are some thrust results, starting first with the AE-45 on factory default settings.  Prop used for all testing is the 6x4 APC gas and the battery is the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C, you can find links for these on the motor spreadsheet.

50% throttle - 11.2A/136.5W producing 465 gr/16.4 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 30.1A/356.1W producing 920 gr/32.5 oz of thrust.

On the spreadsheet, I have highlighted in light green the best settings I would use for each ESC I have tested with this motor.  For discussion here they are, remembering that my Turnigy Plush is V3.1 and Hobby King currently carries V4.2.  I have listed from lowest to highest performance.

Turnigy Plush (timing low, factory default)

50% throttle - 11.5A/141.5W producing 487 gr/17.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.8A/352.3W producing 935 gr/33 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC (timing 26.25 degrees/8 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 12.3A/149.7W producing 508 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.6A/369.5W producing 948 gr/33.4 oz of thrust.

Turnigy AE-45A ESC (timing 22.5 degrees/24 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 12.7A/155.1W producing 530 gr/18.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 34.2A/411.6W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

So looking at all these numbers and factoring efficiency from a standpoint of how much thrust is produced for each amp drawn, they are all pretty much dead equal.  What I have learned and now look for with these smaller quad racing motors is the best and most efficient mid range power.  Due to their smaller size, they may not have the same torque as a bigger, heavier 2212 size motor, but it seems that thus far, the better mid range power makes up for this lack of size somewhat.

I know that the amp draw at the top end climbs considerably for not a whole lot of increase in top end power, but sometimes I think I have to take that as a compromise to have better power at mid range where I spend more than 80% of my time when flying.

What is interesting with both the HobbyWing and AE-45 ESCs is that as soon as I switched from the factory default PWM frequency, the mid range power jumped significantly with varying increases in top end power.  I would be interested to know what type of motor these two ESCs are set up for at the factory.  I suspect maybe helicopters?  I did see something in the comments on the AE-45 that flashing it with BL-heli firmware made it work better?  Not something I will probably try, but interesting to see how experimenting with the different settings can help to optimize the power output of the motor for what you are looking for.

Thus far, I think my workload has already been cut in half if I look to optimize the settings for each motor as factory PWM settings don't seem to be optimized for smaller, higher Kv quad and park jet motors.  It will be interesting to see if there is a natural cutoff between motors less than 2700 Kv and those at 2700 Kv or higher as the optimum settings with the AE-45 for the Racerstar BR2306 2700 Kv motor are different than the BR2406 as you can read in this blog post.

So I will continue to experiment and update the spreadsheet as I go along😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Turnigy AE-45A ESC - testing timing and PWM combinations

Hi Everyone -

I have been catching up on some testing with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC the last couple days😊  You can read more about my initial impressions and testing with factory defaults and the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor at this blog post.  That motor performed very well with the factory defaults, however, as you can see in the discussion below, it took a little more research to find the right setting for a higher Kv motor.

Like I did with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC, I decided to run through the entire series of combinations of timing (8 different settings) and PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency (2 of those), so a total of 16 different runs to find the best combination.  I had wanted to use the Racerstar BR2406S 2600 Kv motor like I did with the HobbyWing test, but it wasn't running that great (problem now fixed and will be the subject of another article😏)  If you want to read about the advanced testing on the HobbyWing ESC, please go to this blog article.  For this series of testing, I used the Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor as it is quite similar in performance to the BR2406 2600 and is the same brand.

So here is what the manual says about timing.

Timing: 0/3.75/7.5/11.25/15/18.75/22.5/26.25 degrees, default is 15 degrees.  Usually, low timing is suitable for most motors.  But there are many difference among structures and parameters of different motors so please try and select the most suitable timing value according to the motor you are just using.  The correct timing value makes the motor run smoothly.  And generally, higher timing value brings out higher output power and higher speed.

So similar to the HobbyWing which also has 15 degrees as default timing, if low timing is suitable for most motors, why did they choose a setting almost in the middle as default?!😕  Also, if you don't have a thrust test setup, how are you going to know what timing will work best with the "motor you are just using"?!

Here is what the manual says about PWM timing.  Note that this ESC has 12 and 24 KHz as options, the HobbyWing has 8 and 12 KHz.

PWM frequency:  12 KHz/24 KHz, default is 12 HKz.  For motors with high Kv (high speed) and many poles, the 24 KHz PWM frequency may let them work more smoothly.  But the higher PWM frequency will make the ESC to be hotter.

Again, almost word for word to what the HobbyWing manual says😏

All the details are available here on my motor test spreadsheet.

For the sake of discussion, let's look at a few of the numbers.  Here is the performance with the Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor, 6x4 APC gas prop using the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery.  Links to these can be found on the spreadsheet.  This motor based on the specs on the Banggood website is supposedly a 35A max load current motor, but that is based on their test charts, perhaps the motor can be pushed harder, but I used this number in decisions I discuss later.

Factory default (15 degrees timing/12 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 10.7A/133.6W producing 480 gr/16.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 34.7A/399.4W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

Compared to the Turnigy Plush (factory default settings) and HobbyWing (with the custom settings), the 50% throttle power is about 25 gr lower.

As you will note on the spreadsheet, at times the high end thrust was up and down, but mostly in the neighborhood of about 955 gr or so regardless of timing or PWM.  One thing you can see with the 50% throttle thrust is that as soon as the PWM is changed to 24 Khz, the mid range power is much better until the timing gets to the two highest settings then it falls off considerably.  So interestingly for a higher Kv motor, I would not go with default PWM setting right away because of the increase in mid range power.  Although I do like to rip around at full throttle pretty regularly, I spend about 80% of my time at about 60% throttle, so best mid range power is important to me.

So after switching the PWM to 24 Khz, here are a couple of timing settings that stood out for comparison. 

Timing 3.75 degrees

50% throttle - 14.6A/176.5W producing 510 gr/18 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 33.9A/397.6W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

Timing 15 degrees (factory default timing)

50% throttle - 11.3A/138.6W producing 510 gr/18 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 35.7A/424.8W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

So keeping in mind what I mentioned earlier about my flying style, even though I would be drawing more amps for a little less (5 gr) thrust with the timing at 15 degrees, I would select that as my timing with 24 KHz as the PWM.  The reason being is that when I look at the 50% throttle setting, even though the thrust produced is the same, with 3.75 degrees as the timing setting, it pulls close to 30% more amps to produce this power!😲  Given that I spend about 80% of my time close to this throttle setting, the amp draw at mid range would be too high for my liking with 3.75 degrees timing.  I may experiment with this at the field, but will start off with the 15 degrees timing/24 Khz PWM combo.

Of note I think is that this custom setting I discovered produces almost identical numbers to the Turnigy Plush default settings.  The HobbyWing 40A ESC with the custom settings I found for that for high Kv motors produces more top end thrust, but about the same mid range as the AE and Plush ESCs.

So again, it was interesting testing.  I guess what makes me scratch my head again is that without a thrust test setup and watt meter, how is your average person going to find out these optimal custom settings that they encourage you to experiment with in the manual?😕

Field testing to start very soon😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session - EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor - 07 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I had my thrust stand out today doing another round of testing, this time with the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor which is by a narrow margin the most powerful quad racing motor I have tested thus far😊  It is the motor I have been running in my RC Powers T50 V5 for the last couple weeks.

Today, I tested this motor with the 6x4 APC gas prop, the Hobby King 6x4 APC style electric prop, and the 6x4 KMP prop from Banggood.  I tested each prop using the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and then the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC.  Some very interesting and also somewhat puzzling😕 results, but the numbers are what the numbers are.😉

All tests were done using the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery.  The timing on the Turnigy Plush is at low (factory default), the HobbyWing ESC is set at 26.25 degrees and PWM (pulse width modulation frequency) is set at 8KHz.  These are not factory defaults, you can read more about my previous experimentation with the HobbyWing ESC in this blog post.

This motor definitely likes the HobbyWing ESC with the settings I have set, it has marked improvement at 50% and full throttle with all three props compared to their performance with the Turnigy Plush.😀

The overall best combination proved to be the 6x4 KMP prop with the HobbyWing ESC.  Numbers are below (you can also read the full details on my motor spreadsheet).

50% throttle - 18.3A/219.4W producing 635 gr/22.4 oz of thrust; and

100% throttle - 41.6A/482.7W producing 1120 gr/39.5 oz of thrust.

This is where it becomes a bit puzzling, as the numbers with the 6x4 APC electric knock off from Hobby King are nearly identical, same top end thrust, just 5 gr less at 50% throttle.  The 6x4 APC gas prop with the HobbyWing ESC produced 1075 gr/37.9 oz of thrust😕  Still decent numbers, but the 6x4 APC gas prop pulls 42.6A to produce less thrust in this situation, so a bit puzzling after the 6x4 APC gas prop performing so well for me to date.

Some of these amp number exceed 40, but this ESC has a 60A burst rating and normally, in the air the rule of thumb is that there will be about a 25% drop in amp draw, so 42.6A would become about 32A.  I will check the ESC regularly for heat build up.  According to the HobbyKing website, the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor should be able to handle up to 58A if you click on the "Product Specifications" tab when you open the link to the motor.

The best prop with the Turnigy Plush ESC turned out again to be the 6x4 KMP prop, then the 6x4 APC electric, then the 6x4 APC gas.  So comparing my results with rcplanepirate's, the main difference is my stand tests in a "puller" configuration, perhaps in the air with a "pusher", the 6x4 APC electric won't perform as well or differently?  I certainly know from testing it with several other motors with the Plush ESC at the field, the 6x4 APC gas has proven to be a very good performer in the air.  Only one way to find out, so time to put the motor back in my T50, put the HobbyWing ESC in there and get it out to the field with all three props and see what is what😀  The 6x4 APC electric and 6x4 KMP are certainly louder than the 6x4 APC gas prop, so time for a "fly off"😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

40A ESC field test - Turnigy Plush vs HobbyWing Platinum PRO - 06 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I had a bit of a break in the weather today to get this little beauty out to get some comparative field testing done with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC.😊

Video of today's field testing

Before going too far, I must mention that the Turnigy Plush 40A ESCs I am using were purchased a few years ago, so they are version 3.1.

As you can see from this picture taken from the current Hobby King website, they are now up to version 4.2.

You can see when you compare the two pictures, that the BEC (battery elimination circuit) on my version is 3A/5V and the newer version 4.2 has a 5V/5A BEC.  I don't know if any other upgrades occurred, however if you buy a new one, perhaps your performance will differ from mine.  I guess if I'm still using ESCs that are over three years old with all the flying I do, they must be "Bulletproof"😉😏

Here is a close up of the HobbyWing ESC.

You can read more of my initial impressions and testing of the HobbyWing ESC at this blog post.  For more on the testing process I went through to find the best settings for the motor used in today's field test (Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv), you can go to this blog post.  If you would rather just see the numbers from the testing straight away, please go my motor spreadsheet, along the bottom you will see a tab called ESC testing.

So details on today's testing as mentioned in the video, motor used is in brackets above, prop is the 6x4 APC gas prop used for all the bench testing.  Battery is the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C

Settings for the Plush ESC in this test are factory default, timing is low which as you can see on the motor spreadsheet gave the best overall performance in bench testing.

Settings for the HobbyWing ESC in this test are timing set to 26.25 degrees, PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency set to 8KHz.  These have to be programmed as the factory settings are 15 degrees for timing and 12KHz for the PWM frequency.

So for comparison for this blog post, here are the bench test numbers using the 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace battery.

Plush

50% throttle - 11.5A/141.5W producing 487 gr/17.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.8A/352.3W producing 935 gr/33 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing

50% throttle - 11.9A/146.1W producing 507 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 32.2A/387.4W producing 940 gr/33.2 oz of thrust.

So you can see by the numbers, there is very little difference in top end thrust and I would agree with that from what I saw at the field today.  However, as I mention in the video, there is a definite and noticeable difference at mid range throttle between 50-75%.  I found at 50% throttle on launch, the plane almost wanted to pull itself out of my hand with the HobbyWing ESC and it definitely flew faster at 60% throttle (my normal setting for just flying around) than with the Plush.

After shooting the video, I managed to get a few more flights in before it started raining using the HobbyWing ESC.  I saw noticeable difference in throttle response again between about 60-75% throttle both up and down.  A couple times when I decreased the throttle it happened so quickly I thought something was wrong with the motor and when hammering the "burners"😎, I did notice a slight improvement in acceleration with the HobbyWing ESC.  Beyond 75% throttle and below 50%, response was pretty much identical for both ESCs.

So far I have not noticed any issues with motor skipping, sagging or surging.  As I mention at the end of the video, with some motors I have tested where I have experimented with changing timing, the motor will run fine for awhile and then respond erratically to throttle inputs or just sag in power without the throttle being touched.  I didn't see any of that today with the HobbyWing ESC, mind you I only got about five flights completed before I had to cut the session short due to rain.

So far so good with the field testing, but I will continue to test with other motors to see if the performance continues to be consistent.😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom.

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session 2212/5T 2700 Kv motor - 05 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I was busy with the thrust stand again today, testing a very inexpensive motor that I have run in many of my planes in the last couple years, the 2212/5T 2700 Kv, I got mine from Gear Best.

This type of motor is readily available all over the internet, I have seen several vendors on EBay and even purchased a couple from Banggood.  Unfortunately, the ones I got from Banggood ran extremely hot and pulled well in excess of 40A, so I don't know what happened there😒  It is quite a bit heavier than most of the quad racing motors I have been testing at 66 gr/2.3 oz and you must provide your own connectors and prop mounting adapter/collet, so that adds a bit to the price.  I buy my 3.17 mm adapters from RC Timer as they are inexpensive and pretty decent quality.

Rcplanepirate has done considerable testing with this motor and shot a couple of videos, you can find his YouTube channel here.

You can read the full details on my motor spreadsheet, I have created a new page just for this motor, along the bottom you can find the tab to click to take you to the page.

Today I tested three different props I have run on this motor in the past on 3S

• 6x4 APC gas;
• 6x4 APC style electric (Hobby King knock off); and
• 6x4 KMP (Banggood)

 I also experimented with two different ESCs that I have been comparing recently.

• Turnigy Plush 40A ESC (timing set to low (factory default) as this seems to work best);
• HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC (timing set at 26.25 degrees and running at 8HKz PWM frequency as this seems to be the best for higher Kv motors).  You can read more about how I found this out through experimentation at this blog post

This test session once again proved that I can never take anything for granted until I do the testing and see the numbers😐  I have been raving about the 6x4 APC gas prop for several months now being so much better than the 6x4 APC electric knock off from Hobby King and it has been both on the bench and in the air.  Well, the numbers were so much better at full throttle with the 6x4 APC style electric with the HobbyWing ESC, I had to do the test a second time to make sure I didn't do anything wrong😕

This motor produced significantly more thrust at full throttle with all three props using the HobbyWing ESC with the settings above.  The 6x4 KMP produced the most thrust at 1060 gr/37.4 oz of thrust, but drew 39.1A to do so, a bit high I think for this motor.  Where I really had to scratch my head is that the 6x4 APC gas prop produced 999 gr/35.2 oz of thrust drawing 35.6A, then the 6x4 APC style electric produced 1045 gr/36.9 oz of thrust and only drew 35.7A to do so!😲  This prop also produced the most mid range thrust with this ESC as you can see on the spreadsheet.

Using the Turnigy Plush ESC, the definite thrust winner is the 6x4 KMP at 1020 gr/36 oz drawing 35.7A which I think is in the ball park for this motor from my many flights even in warm weather.

I was actually surprised now that I tested them on an actual proper thrust stand that the 6x4 APC gas and 6x4 APC style electric were pretty much dead even in mid range and top end thrust.  Again, a real head scratcher, but some very good numbers for such an inexpensive motor.  Of course the HobbyWing ESC is not a cheap ESC, but I think it will be worth putting this motor in a plane with this ESC and the 6x4 APC style electric prop and see what happens since I have a couple😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Thrust stand test sessions - 02/03 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I have been quite busy the last couple of days getting some testing done with the HobbyWing Platinum 40A ESC PRO I received a few days ago.  I will warn you ahead of time, there are a lot of numbers being thrown around here and on the spreadsheet linked below, so towards the end I have tried to distill out what I think are the best settings for each ESC for the motor I tested today.

You can read more about my initial thoughts and initial testing with this ESC here at this blog post.

Yesterday, I decided to test several of the quad racing motors I have (a couple didn't get tested as they are in planes right now and I was a bit too lazy to pull them out 😳)  I tested these motors with all the default settings just like I had tested the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor mentioned in the blog post above.  I was quite surprised when the numbers were quite a bit lower than they were with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC.  Bit of a headscratcher, especially in the mid range power.  You can read the numbers on my motor spreadsheet, click on the tab labelled Quad racing motors.

So I reached out to rcplanepirate to get some ideas why there might be this reduction in performance.  He reminded me of a conversation we had awhile back that some experimentation would probably be required with this HobbyWing ESC as it has so many options for settings.  He suggested trying different timing options and also switching the PWM frequency settings.  So this morning I got some batteries charged, got out the thrust stand and away we went😊

The following texts are quoted from the HobbyWing ESC manual regarding timing and PWM frequency settings.  As you can see, a lot of options for timing.

Timing:  0 degrees/3.75 degrees/7.5 degrees/11.25 degrees/15 degrees (factory default)/18.75 degrees/22.5 degrees/26.25 degrees.

Usually, low timing value is suitable for most motors.  But there are many difference among structures and parameters of different motors so please try and select the most suitable timing value according to the motor you are just using.  The correct timing value makes the motor run smoothly.  And generally, higher timing value brings out higher output power and higher speed.

PWM Frequency:  12KHz/8 KHz, default is 12KHz.
For some motors with high Kv (high speed) and many poles, the 12KHz PWM frequency may let them work more smoothly.  But the higher PWM frequency will make the ESC hotter.  Generally the 8KHz frequency is suitable for most motors.

Now, having read that, not to put my "whiney pants" on, but there are a lot of generalities there.😒  All the motors ran smoothly in the brief tests, so I'm not sure exactly what is supposed to happen when they don't run smoothly, might have to find that out in the air.  Second, if the 8KHz frequency is suitable for most motors, why is it not the default PWM frequency?!  Head scratching continues...you will see more what I mean later in this post😏

So to capture everything all together, I created a new page on the motor spreadsheet called ESC testing.  I chose one motor, the Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv as it is kind of in the middle of the pack of the quad racing motors I have tested thus far, bolted on a 6x4 APC prop and got to work.

I also decided to test this motor on the three ESC timing settings (low, medium, high) with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC as I had not done that and was interested to see if there were any major differences.  Interestingly enough, this is what it says in the Plush ESC manual about timing settings (nothing about PWM frequency, so I might have to try and research that a bit more).

Timing:  Low/Medium/High (3.75 degrees/15 degrees/26.25 degrees), default is low.

Usually, low timing or medium timing is suitable for most motors.  In order to get higher speed and bigger output power, please choose High timing.

Interesting, as you will see from my tests, no huge difference and in fact low timing is the best with this motor with the Plush ESC.

So with the HobbyWing ESC, I went through every timing setting initially with the default 12KHz PWM frequency.

Nothing really jumped out at me here, the mid range power was still significantly lower regardless of the timing setting with this PWM compared to the Plush 40A ESC on low timing.  The Plush mid range thrust was still better than any setting by 12 grams or more.  Full throttle settings were all relatively close, nothing that really stood out a whole lot as the timing setting rose, the full throttle thrust did increase until the top level of 26.25 degrees where it seemed to fall off a bit at both top and mid levels😐.

So then I started over, changing the PWM frequency to 8KHz.  This is when I noticed a big change, especially at 50% throttle.  Right away I noticed an increase in mid range power, even at the lowest timing setting.  The lowest mid range power at 8KHz is still 10 gr higher than the highest result at 12KHz and it continued to climb steadily as the timing settings went up, peaking at 43 grams more than the highest mid range thrust at 12KHz.  There wasn't as big an increase in full throttle power, 10 grams more thrust at full throttle at 8 KHz than at 12KHz at the maximum.  Fortunately, at 8KHz, the best mid range and full throttle numbers are at 26.25 degrees timing.

Although there is not a huge difference at 8KHz between 22.5 degrees and 26.25 degrees of timing, at 26.25 degrees it produces a bit more top end thrust at 0.6 less amps drawn.

So looking at the Turnigy Plush numbers, at high timing it produced 3 gr more thrust at mid throttle, but less 10 gr less thrust and pulled 31.2A to do so.  Looking at the numbers, I will stay with low timing for this ESC.  In order to easily compare, here are the best numbers for the Plush ESC with timing at low compared to the HobbyWing ESC with it's best setup.

Plush

50% throttle - 11.5A/141.5W producing 487 gr/17.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.8A/352.3W producing 935 gr/33.0 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing ESC with timing set at 26.25 degrees and PWM frequency set at 8KHz.

50% throttle - 12.3A/149.7W producing 508 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.6A/369.5W producing 948 gr/33.4 oz of thrust.

So while this process was a bit tedious programming the HobbyWing ESC using the transmitter between each test, I learned a lot and it was worth it to go through the process.  Thanks again to RCPP for the tips and ideas.

The HobbyWing ESC does seem to allow the motor to wind up just a tiny bit faster than the Plush, although it is tougher to tell with the motor on the bench, field testing will be necessary to see if this converts into better acceleration.  I have already put this motor in my "beater" RC Powers Su30 V4 and will do field tests comparing the Plush and HobbyWing ESCs on my next available flying day.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session - 01 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I did some more bench testing today to keep filling in the data on the Banggood 2212/6 2200 Kv motor that I refer to as the "park jet workhorse".  Additionally, I received new HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO ESCs in the mail today, so I wanted to see if there is a difference between those and the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC I currently test with.  You can read more on my initial impressions of the HobbyWing ESCs along with some test comparison numbers at this blog post.

You can read the full details of all of today's testing on the first page of the updated motor test spreadsheet.

In addition to comparing the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs with the same 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery, today I tested the Hobby King knockoff 6x4 APC style electric prop and the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop, again the numbers are available in the spreadsheet link above😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO Brushless ESC initial review and test

Hi Everyone -

After five weeks of waiting, I received my HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO ESCs from Banggood😀  When I purchased mine, they were on special from the China warehouse for $31.46 USD, they are now $40.16 from the China warehouse and on offer until 28 Feb 2018 for $21.59 from the Banggood US warehouse.  Thanks Banggood😒 😉

I will be comparing it a lot to my current favorite ESC the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC from Hobby King, so from this point I will just refer to them as the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs when comparing.  Here it is out of the package, it comes with 3.5mm bullet connectors already attached and two pieces of pre cut heat shrink to use on the battery leads which I though was a nice touch.

A closeup of the label.  Please note where it says "USB supported" in orange as this will be discussed later in the post.

Close up of my current Turnigy Plush 40A ESC which I think is new to me, but I bought it a couple years ago as the BEC available on the new Turnigy Plush according to the link above now has a 5A BEC.  It sells for $23.91 USD currently, I think I paid less than $20 the last time I bought one from HobbyKing as they have been so durable.

The HobbyWing comes with a very large set of instructions, it definitely has more programmable features than the Plush and can be far better optimized for helicopters reading through it briefly.

After soldering on the XT60 connector and heat shrink, I weighed both ESCs, all the wires are the same guage and same length, so no surprise they ended up the same weight.

As you can see in the following two pictures, they are pretty much identical in size and look identical other than the color of wires and heat shrink.

The HobbyWing is rated to have a 10 second burst of up to 60A, the Plush 55A I assume for 10 seconds as well, I couldn't find a number on the website or in the manual.  Setting the throttle points is the same for both.  Turn on the transmitter, advance the throttle to full, connect the battery, wait for the two solid beeps, place the throttle at zero, then the ESC arms as normal.

Programming

This is where things get a bit interesting😐  The manual for the Hobbywing says "Several kinds of Program Cards are supported", unfortunately, it doesn't support the two cards I have, including the one made by HobbyWing...hmmmm😞  As you can see in these pictures, it does light up the card, but when I tried to make any changes to see if the card would work, it failed to work with both cards even though it indicated it had taken the change😲.  That actually doesn't matter that much to me as the factory defaults are what I want anyway😀

As I mentioned earlier, it can be programmed using a different interface unit available from Banggood for $29.45 USD.  I will probably pass on that for now😉

So I was doing a bit of bench testing anyway, so I had to see if there was any difference between the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs.  I used the same Banggood 2212/6 2200 Kv motor as I have been using for all tests and the same 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery (Links to those are available on this test spreadsheet)  Here are the numbers.

Plush ESC

50% throttle - 10.6A/129.1W producing 440 gr/15.5 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 26.2A/307.5W producing 885 gr/31.2 oz of thrust.

Hobbywing ESC

50% throttle - 9.9A/123.4W producing 433 gr/15.3 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 28.1A/326W producing 912 gr/32.2 oz of thrust.

So mid range not a whole lot of difference, the HobbyWing certainly did allow the motor to wind up a bit more at full throttle although drawing more amps, however another full oz of thrust is interesting😉.  What was noticeable was throttle response, when I advanced to full throttle from zero, it wound up almost immediately, noticeably faster than the Plush.  It certainly took me by surprise, in a good way😏  Although as I mentioned, the Plush is an older version, it is brand new out of the package in the last month since I got my new thrust stand, so it has not had much use.  

So I am pretty excited now to get this into a plane and see how it performs under some stress at the field.😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott