Field test - 2212/5T 2700 Kv motor with 6x3 EMP and 6x4 APC electric props on 3S

Hi Everyone -

I had this beauty out yesterday doing some field testing to validate some bench testing I did a few days ago😊

You can read more details about that testing and my previous experiences with this motor at this blog post.  

Here is the flight video of yesterday's testing.

One of the reasons I did this testing with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC is to evaluate this as an inexpensive power upgrade to the 2212/6 2200 kv motor which is a good starter setup.  Of all the ESCs I have tested in a while, the Turnigy AE-45 is one of the most reasonably priced, versatile and top performing ESCs I have used.  Regularly priced at $21.39 USD, it is a couple of dollars cheaper than the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and almost half the price of the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC that I have also been testing.  To get the best performance with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC, I found setting the timing to 22.5 degrees and the PWM frequency to 24 KHz is optimum for this motor.

As I mentioned in the video, I have also flown this motor with the 6x4 APC gas prop with very good results using the Plush ESC, however the results on the bench were not so good with the Turnigy AE-45.  In keeping with trying to come up with a "budget" setup, I won't discuss that setup as the 6x4 APC gas prop is quite a bit more expensive than the two props I tested in the video and I know some folks can't get it in their part of the world.

The 6x3E sport prop I used in the video is from RC Timer and although you have to buy them in packs of 5 props, it works out to about $0.90 USD per prop.  At Hobby King, the 6x3 TGS prop is $1.61 and at Banggood, the 6x3 KMP prop is $1.64.  The 6x4 APC style electric props from Hobby King used in the video sell for $1.22 a pair or $0.61 each.

So affirmed in the video is yes, you can run a 6x4 prop on this motor, but the quality of the motor will determine how long you can run it with that prop.  As mentioned in the bench test post linked above and the flight video, from my experience, I would say that about 300 flights might be the maximum unless you get lucky and get a really good motor😀  Bearings will most likely be the first thing that goes on these motors as the manufacturers tend to "cheap out" on these to save production cost.

Even with the 6x3E prop, there is a power increase noticeable over the 2212 2200 kv motor with it's best setup.  Especially noticeable is the mid range power and "hole shot" acceleration, so I think it is still a noticeable power upgrade over the 2212 2200 kv motor and the price can be pretty reasonable.

I didn't mention in the bench test video, but you will need to provide your own connectors to be able to connect it to the ESC as it does not come with them.  Also, the prop adapters can be of very cheap quality and can bend easily, so I would suggest picking up some extras.  I get mine from RC Timer, they have worked well for me for a few years now.  I would suggest having a few of these spare for any motors you run with a 3.17 mm shaft as once they bend, they are very hard to get straight again and can sometimes shear off if you try to tighten the prop too hard.😒

If you are interested in more testing on this motor, please check out rcplanepirate's YouTube channel.  He did three videos experimenting with this motor on the bench.  If you do buy the 6x3E sport prop or it's equivalents from TGS or KMP, be aware they are normally not balanced, RCPP also has a great video on how to balance these props for best performance.  As mentioned in my video, here is RCPP's prop discussion video which I find quite informative.

So in conclusion, yes this motor is a budget power upgrade over the 2212 2200 kv motor and can be run on a 6x4 APC prop, however I would suggest not setting your expectations for quality control and longevity too high if you do decide to run the 6x4 prop😊  The 6x3E would probably be the best choice for motor longevity in this case.  You get what you pay for in this situation, and your experiences may differ from mine, fingers crossed you get some good ones😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

A2212/5T 2700 Kv motor budget power upgrade or buyer beware?

Hi Everyone -

I had the thrust stand busy yesterday doing some more testing with the inexpensive A2212/5T 2700 Kv motor with the 6x3E sport prop from RC Timer and the Turnigy AE-45A ESC.

I am doing some more testing with this motor and setup as a possible inexpensive power upgrade from the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor for those folks who don't perhaps want to play around with quad racing motors that can get a bit more pricey and amp hungry.

I will get to the specifics of the testing towards the end, or if you don't want to wait, you can check out my motor test spreadsheet here.  Please scroll along the bottom to find the tab for this motor, it is over to the right of the spreadsheet.😀  Also, if you watch rcplanepirate's YouTube channel, he has done all kinds of testing and has shot three videos on testing one of these motors he bought from EBay.

I have run these motors in several different planes for a couple of years now and certainly you get what you pay for, but I have had some pretty good performance from most of the ones I bought and have run them pretty hard on 6x4 APC electric props (knock offs from Hobby King) and the 6x4 APC gas prop.  If you pick a couple up, my advice would be to be prepared that your motors might not last terribly long depending on how you run them, quality control is not a big strength of motors that you can get for $5-7 USD😏

The link above for this motor is from GearBest, I have also purchased them from a couple of different vendors from EBay.  GearBest just raised the price to $7.01 USD which is the price at the time of writing this post.  There are several vendors on EBay that sell this motor, I just found this one that sells the motor for $5.16 USD.

The worst experience I have had with this motor were two that I bought from Banggood over a year ago.  The two motors I got from Banggood were not usable, even with a 6x3 prop, they both pulled over 40A and ran exceptionally hot.   Here is the link to the Banggood motor, they want $7.59 USD for their version😕

In all honesty, it is very difficult to know the amp limits on this motor.  Reading specs from this vendor on EBay, they give it a very low amp rating.  Here are their specs copied and pasted in.

Model No.: A2212/5T 2700KV
Weight: 50g
Motor Dimensions: 27.7 * 26.3mm
Shaft Size: 3.17 * 37mm
Battery Operating: 2-3 LiPo
Idle Current: 1.8A
Load Current: 18.5A
Power (Watt): 240
ESC (A): 30A. 20A
Ri (MΩ): 0.14
Peak Amps: 14-22 A

I have a bit of a hard time believing this motor is rated that low, unless it was run on 2S or with a very small, low pitch prop on 3S where you would get very limited thrust.  I think I have also read somewhere it is a 25A motor, again I think a bit low.  However, all of the motors I have run do run warmer/hotter than other higher quality motors.  One of the areas that most manufacturers will "cheap out" on is the bearings which can cause the motor to work harder and rather than producing more power, the motor produces heat.

Here are some comparison pictures.  The motor on the left was run for almost 300 flights using the 6x4 APC electric prop.  This motor was consistently pulling 35A on a static test.  It has now pretty much reached the end of it's productive life as the bearings are starting to go😢  Hopefully you can see that the top has become discolored, much lighter than the new one on the right.

In the next two pictures, I tried to get shots of the wires, the wires on the used motor are darker indicating they have had some pretty high temps running through them.  The new one of course has very nice, shiny wires.

Another thing to look for when a motor is starting to run rough or the bearings are going is to pull gently on the bell of the motor, looking for a gap where my thumb is pointing below.  In the old motor, I can pull the bell so that this gap is about 1mm, on the new motor, the bell barely moves.

So to answer the question, can you run this motor on a 6x4 prop?  Yes, you can, but you need to be aware that you are probably pushing the motor pretty hard and depending on whether you got a good motor or a bad motor will determine it's longevity.  I suppose 300 flights from a $5 motor is not a bad result (about $.02 per flight😉), I have certainly had more expensive motors last less time than that😒

I did run this motor with the 6x3E sport prop in the past, also available from HobbyKing as 6x3 TGS and Banggood as 6x3 KMP and it ran very well, I just preferred at the time the feel and performance of the 6x4 APCE prop.  So now that I have an actual thrust stand that is far more accurate than my previous crude setup, I decided to do some more bench test comparison.  The results were actually quite good.  I first tested with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC with timing at low as this is the ESC I have been using all along when flying with this motor.  Here are the results with the 6x3E sport prop.

50% throttle - 13.1A/158.8W producing 540 gr/19 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 28.2A/328.1W producing 995 gr/35.1 oz of thrust.

So these results are quite good and very efficient for that much power.  Compared to the best setup I have found with the 2212/6 2200 kv motor, it is about 80 gr more thrust at mid throttle and 45 gr more at full throttle, so certainly a boost in power, especially at mid range.

So since I have been seeing such great results with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz PWM frequency, I gave that a try as well with three different props.  Here are the results.

6x3E sport prop

50% throttle - 14.8A/182.2W producing 586 gr/20.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 30.2A/348.3W producing 1045 gr/36.9 oz of thrust.

6x4 APCE (Hobby King knockoff)

50% throttle - 14.3A/173.0W producing 530 gr/18.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 34A/395.5 producing 1010 gr/35.6 oz of thrust.

6x4 APC gas

50% throttle - 14.6A/176.2W producing 555 gr/19.6 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 36.5A/402.3W producing 920 gr/32.5 oz of thrust.

So I was quite surprised at how low the top end thrust was with the 6x4 APC gas prop considering it is better than that with the Turnigy Plush on factory default although the AE-45 does give slightly better results at mid throttle.

I was quite impressed with the thrust and efficiency with the 6x3E sport prop with the AE-45 ESC, so I will have to give that a try at the field and compare it to the 6x4 APCE since if I am trying to find a "budget" power upgrade, these props are much less expensive and available than the 6x4 APC gas prop.

So next up some field testing with this motor, the AE-45A ESC and the 6x3E sport and 6x4 APCE props😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session - EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor - 07 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I had my thrust stand out today doing another round of testing, this time with the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor which is by a narrow margin the most powerful quad racing motor I have tested thus far😊  It is the motor I have been running in my RC Powers T50 V5 for the last couple weeks.

Today, I tested this motor with the 6x4 APC gas prop, the Hobby King 6x4 APC style electric prop, and the 6x4 KMP prop from Banggood.  I tested each prop using the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and then the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC.  Some very interesting and also somewhat puzzling😕 results, but the numbers are what the numbers are.😉

All tests were done using the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery.  The timing on the Turnigy Plush is at low (factory default), the HobbyWing ESC is set at 26.25 degrees and PWM (pulse width modulation frequency) is set at 8KHz.  These are not factory defaults, you can read more about my previous experimentation with the HobbyWing ESC in this blog post.

This motor definitely likes the HobbyWing ESC with the settings I have set, it has marked improvement at 50% and full throttle with all three props compared to their performance with the Turnigy Plush.😀

The overall best combination proved to be the 6x4 KMP prop with the HobbyWing ESC.  Numbers are below (you can also read the full details on my motor spreadsheet).

50% throttle - 18.3A/219.4W producing 635 gr/22.4 oz of thrust; and

100% throttle - 41.6A/482.7W producing 1120 gr/39.5 oz of thrust.

This is where it becomes a bit puzzling, as the numbers with the 6x4 APC electric knock off from Hobby King are nearly identical, same top end thrust, just 5 gr less at 50% throttle.  The 6x4 APC gas prop with the HobbyWing ESC produced 1075 gr/37.9 oz of thrust😕  Still decent numbers, but the 6x4 APC gas prop pulls 42.6A to produce less thrust in this situation, so a bit puzzling after the 6x4 APC gas prop performing so well for me to date.

Some of these amp number exceed 40, but this ESC has a 60A burst rating and normally, in the air the rule of thumb is that there will be about a 25% drop in amp draw, so 42.6A would become about 32A.  I will check the ESC regularly for heat build up.  According to the HobbyKing website, the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor should be able to handle up to 58A if you click on the "Product Specifications" tab when you open the link to the motor.

The best prop with the Turnigy Plush ESC turned out again to be the 6x4 KMP prop, then the 6x4 APC electric, then the 6x4 APC gas.  So comparing my results with rcplanepirate's, the main difference is my stand tests in a "puller" configuration, perhaps in the air with a "pusher", the 6x4 APC electric won't perform as well or differently?  I certainly know from testing it with several other motors with the Plush ESC at the field, the 6x4 APC gas has proven to be a very good performer in the air.  Only one way to find out, so time to put the motor back in my T50, put the HobbyWing ESC in there and get it out to the field with all three props and see what is what😀  The 6x4 APC electric and 6x4 KMP are certainly louder than the 6x4 APC gas prop, so time for a "fly off"😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session 2212/5T 2700 Kv motor - 05 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I was busy with the thrust stand again today, testing a very inexpensive motor that I have run in many of my planes in the last couple years, the 2212/5T 2700 Kv, I got mine from Gear Best.

This type of motor is readily available all over the internet, I have seen several vendors on EBay and even purchased a couple from Banggood.  Unfortunately, the ones I got from Banggood ran extremely hot and pulled well in excess of 40A, so I don't know what happened there😒  It is quite a bit heavier than most of the quad racing motors I have been testing at 66 gr/2.3 oz and you must provide your own connectors and prop mounting adapter/collet, so that adds a bit to the price.  I buy my 3.17 mm adapters from RC Timer as they are inexpensive and pretty decent quality.

Rcplanepirate has done considerable testing with this motor and shot a couple of videos, you can find his YouTube channel here.

You can read the full details on my motor spreadsheet, I have created a new page just for this motor, along the bottom you can find the tab to click to take you to the page.

Today I tested three different props I have run on this motor in the past on 3S

• 6x4 APC gas;
• 6x4 APC style electric (Hobby King knock off); and
• 6x4 KMP (Banggood)

 I also experimented with two different ESCs that I have been comparing recently.

• Turnigy Plush 40A ESC (timing set to low (factory default) as this seems to work best);
• HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC (timing set at 26.25 degrees and running at 8HKz PWM frequency as this seems to be the best for higher Kv motors).  You can read more about how I found this out through experimentation at this blog post

This test session once again proved that I can never take anything for granted until I do the testing and see the numbers😐  I have been raving about the 6x4 APC gas prop for several months now being so much better than the 6x4 APC electric knock off from Hobby King and it has been both on the bench and in the air.  Well, the numbers were so much better at full throttle with the 6x4 APC style electric with the HobbyWing ESC, I had to do the test a second time to make sure I didn't do anything wrong😕

This motor produced significantly more thrust at full throttle with all three props using the HobbyWing ESC with the settings above.  The 6x4 KMP produced the most thrust at 1060 gr/37.4 oz of thrust, but drew 39.1A to do so, a bit high I think for this motor.  Where I really had to scratch my head is that the 6x4 APC gas prop produced 999 gr/35.2 oz of thrust drawing 35.6A, then the 6x4 APC style electric produced 1045 gr/36.9 oz of thrust and only drew 35.7A to do so!😲  This prop also produced the most mid range thrust with this ESC as you can see on the spreadsheet.

Using the Turnigy Plush ESC, the definite thrust winner is the 6x4 KMP at 1020 gr/36 oz drawing 35.7A which I think is in the ball park for this motor from my many flights even in warm weather.

I was actually surprised now that I tested them on an actual proper thrust stand that the 6x4 APC gas and 6x4 APC style electric were pretty much dead even in mid range and top end thrust.  Again, a real head scratcher, but some very good numbers for such an inexpensive motor.  Of course the HobbyWing ESC is not a cheap ESC, but I think it will be worth putting this motor in a plane with this ESC and the 6x4 APC style electric prop and see what happens since I have a couple😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎