Quad motors in park jets - summary after over a year of testing - 13 Sep 2018

Hi Everyone -

This summary has been a long time coming and if you already follow this blog and my You Tube channel, much of what you are about to read or watch has already been covered.  However, I wanted to do a bit of a wrap up to review some of the more important points and some of the items I may not have discussed to this point.😊

I have certainly become a convert to using quad motors in my single motor, prop in slot park jets.  Their light weight and incredible power certainly fits the way I like to fly.  Of course this power does come with a cost in both money and amp draw and requires some consideration about which plane to choose and how to build it, but for me it has been worth it.

Here is a video I shot that this blog supports.

I mentioned three major sources of information that I found very helpful making the correct choices to achieve the power setups I was looking for.  Here they are.

• rcplanepirate's You Tube channel;
• EngineerX's You Tube channel; and
• miniquadtestbench.com. 

You can also find all the my bench test data on my motor test spreadsheet.  Each motor I tested has it's own page, so if you scroll along the bottom you can navigate to whatever motor you want to view.  Also on this spread sheet is test data from the 2212/6 2200 kv and 2212/5T 2700 kv motors which are the two most popular park jet motors around and what I replaced in all my planes.  I put this data there for info and to compare.  Also, rather than providing links to every motor, prop, ESC and battery I used in testing in this blog post, you will find links to all of these on the motor test spreadsheet.  Where applicable, I also put what custom settings I selected on certain ESCs to maximize performance.  All these setups have been thoroughly tested at the field also.

I also started a thread on the RC Powers forum which may also cover some items missed in this blog post or videos.

From the first post of the RC Powers forum thread, here are the advantages and disadvantages of using quad motors over the more conventional 2212 motors in 2200 and 2700 kv.

Advantages

• quad racing motors tend to be much lighter, saving anywhere from 15-25 grams just in motor weight alone;
• paired with the right prop and ESC, they can produce equal to or often far more power than the standard 2212 2200 kv or 2212/5T 2700 kv motors, so very high thrust to motor weight ratios;
• with so much time and effort being put into the development of lighter, more powerful quad racing motors all the time, the performance is increasing in leaps and bounds whereas the 2212 2200 kv motors other than perhaps becoming cheaper, have not changed much in the last several years from a standpoint of weight and power output;
• although quad motors are often more expensive, because there are so many different companies making them, the competition is fierce and you can often find them for a very reasonable price. For example, I have only paid full price on about 25% of the motors I have purchased in the last year, the rest were all picked up on sale (although one could say I might have gone broke saving money😏);
• many quad motors are designed to be run on batteries from 2-6S, so a wide choice of battery options;
• if you find a motor you really like, they are often sold in bunches of four at a more reasonable price.

Disadvantages

• due to their smaller physical size, they often might not have the torque of a 2212 2200 kv motor. Even though the test bench numbers might show incredible performance, sometimes because they are about half the physical size of a 2212 size motor, they just don't have the "muscle" to push a larger, "draggier" plane around or deal with windier conditions. Therefore airplane size and weight becomes very critical. I have found that planes with about 27" wingspan or less and under about 21 oz AUW work the best, as always, the lighter the better;
• when you build your "prop in slot" plane, you do need to adjust the front of the prop slot quite a bit to compensate for the much shorter "bell/can", otherwise the prop will run far too close to the leading edge of the prop slot causing a lot of noise and causing the prop to run much less effectively/efficiently;
• with a couple of exceptions, I have found that motors with a stator size of 2306 or better (2406, 2307, 2207, 2208 for example) and greater than 2600 kv seem to give the best power when looking for equal or better power than produced by the 2212 2200 kv motor setups;
• they are often considerably more expensive than 2212 2200 kv motors which can often be found on Ebay for $5 USD, but there are some fairly reasonable options available that are pretty peppy and much lighter than a 2212 2200 kv motor setup; and
• they are considerably more "amp hungry" than the 2212 2200 kv motor, normally requiring a 40A ESC on 3S whereas you can often run the 2212 2200 kv motor with a 30A ESC.

As mentioned in the first video, here are the final reviews I did organizing the motors into "budget", "middle of the pack" and "serious power where cost doesn't matter"😉

Budget/value

Middle of the pack (includes a couple of motors to avoid)

My top five choices where cost and efficiency isn't an issue😎

I have also created several playlists to organize other "table talks" about motors, ESCs, batteries that I tested during this process.  As time goes on and I have evaluated these components more thoroughly, these play lists will be updated.  Also is a playlist of all the flying tests at the field.

Thorough reviews of individual quad motors can be found here.  

ESC reviews can be found here.

Battery reviews can be found here.

Field testing play list can be found here. 

One thing I should mention that I did not mention in the video, if you don't want to spend money on new ESCs, experiment with higher timing and different PWM settings if you can.  Even if you don't have a thrust stand to evaluate, normally the quad motors I tested all seemed to like a pretty high timing setting for max performance.  Having said that, monitor the heat build up carefully in your ESC as often most ESCs will run warmer with a higher timing setting.

So certainly none of this information is exhaustive and I will continue to evaluate and learn as my park jet journey continues.  I may still test the odd motor that comes along but for now I am pretty satisfied with the setups I have discovered and will continue to use quad motors in my park jets for the foreseeable future😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Tattu R-Line 1550 4S 75C batteries initial impressions and testing

Hi Everyone -

I received a couple of Tattu R-Line 1550 4S 75C batteries in the mail a couple days ago to experiment with some serious speed in my park jets😀

These batteries have a very good reputation from what I have read and watched on YouTube, they were not cheap, but I only bought a couple for some experimentation and serious speed fun!

I went with this small size as I didn't want to pay a big weight penalty, so even though my flights will be short, they should be fast😉  The batteries weigh 186 gr/6.6 oz.  The normal 2200 3S batteries I use weigh 192 gr/6.8 oz, so my planes should still be pretty light to help them be fast. 

I already did some quick testing for a modified RC Powers Su-30 V4 I am building specifically for speed.  Here is a short video I shot discussing this testing.  You can watch more about this special build by going to this playlist on my YouTube channel.

As discussed in the video, the only successful test was with the EMAX RS2306 2750 kv motor using the 6x3 EMP prop and the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC with custom settings of 26.25 degrees timing and 8 KHz PWM frequency.  You can see the full details on my motor test spreadsheet, but here are the numbers for the combo I mentioned with this new Tattu 4S battery.

50% throttle - 21.8A/346.5W producing 940 gr/33.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 54.8A/860.2W producing 1630 gr/57.5 oz of thrust.

WOW!  That is a 45% increase in thrust over the best mid range power on 3S and 36% increase at full throttle!😲

Until my 5" props that I have ordered show up, this is the setup I will experiment with.

Here are the 5" props I have ordered based on watching rcplanepirate's video on his testing of the EMAX RS2306 2750 kv motor and his personal recommendations. I pasted this list in from the comments of this video.

Hobby King

HobbyKing 5040 GRP/nylon prop https://hobbyking.com/en_us/glass-fib... Dalprops "Indestructible" Bull Nose 5045 V2 https://hobbyking.com/en_us/dalprop-5... Diatone Bull Nose Plastic Propellers 5 x 4.5 https://hobbyking.com/en_us/diatone-b... Banggood DALPROP 5045 Bullnose PC Propeller https://www.banggood.com/2-Pairs-DALP... Gemfan 5045 5 Inch Propeller Bullnose https://www.banggood.com/4PCS-Bullnos... KINGKONG/LDARC 5040 Propellers https://www.banggood.com/10-Pairs-KIN...

So I am excited to get to the field and start experimenting with these new batteries and this setup in a plane, it is going to be scary fast!😳

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Initial impressions and bench testing of the GepRC GR2306 2750 kv motor

Hi Everyone -

I received this GepRC GR2306 2750 kv motor in the mail yesterday and managed to get some bench testing done today😀

As you can see above, it comes with one prop nut and two sets of M3 screws, one set 7mm long and the other 8mm long.  Without any hardware, the motor weighs 32 gr/1.1 oz.  The motor wires are 150mm/5.9" long.

It has a hollow shaft and fairly minimal metal on the top.  According to the Banggood write up in the link above, it is made with 7075 aluminum.  The shaft is hollow all the way through.

It has curved N52 grade magnets which are one of the best grades of magnets used in brushless motors, it has a nice cut out as you can see in the bottom for the wires to be protected.  It is a "naked bottom" motor with no full base plate as you find on a lot of motors.  The gap between the stator and the magnets is very tight and when the motor is spun by hand, it spins smoothly, but the magnets feel very strong.  The shaft is held on with a small hex bolt, however it does not come with a spare like some other motors I have tested.

The bolt pattern is 16x16 mm, so I will only be able to use two screws to hold the "X" mount to the motor, but I think that will be sufficient.

With the prop and all the other hardware needed to put in a park jet, the motor weighs 48 gr/1.7 oz.

I tested the motor with both the 6x4 APC gas prop and the 6x3 EMP prop with the Turnigy Plush, Turnigy AE-45A ESC and Hobby Wing Platinum PRO 40A ESCs.  You can read the complete details as well as find links to all the components on the motor test spreadsheet.  The numbers are all on 3S.  Again, this motor preferred the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz for both props.  According to the Banggood specs, this is a 45A motor.

Based on the numbers alone, I think this motor might push the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor out of the top spot for motors I have tested thus far.  

Here are the best numbers for the GepRC GR2306 2750 kv motor with the 6x4 APC gas prop.

50% throttle - 19.9A/238.0W producing 685 gr/24.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 45.0A/506.3 producing 1115 gr/39.3 oz of thrust.

These are the best numbers I have seen for any of the motors I have tested thus far with the 6x4 APC gas prop, although it is a bit amp hungry.  Based on experience, I would fly this motor with the 6x4 APC gas prop and the Turnigy AE-45A ESC, although it would be pushing the ESC especially hard.

Here are the best numbers for the GepRC GR2306 2750 kv motor with the 6x3 EMP prop and Turnigy AE-45A ESC.

50% throttle - 18.9A/225.8W producing 730 gr/25.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 41.7A/478.2W producing 1290 gr/45.5 oz of thrust.

Wow😁😲  This is the first motor I have seen that produced over 700 gr of thrust at mid throttle, incredible!  I won't bother fooling around, the flight test will be with the 6x3 EMP prop and the Turnigy AE-45A ESC😉  Excited to get it out for a spin very soon😁

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

SunnySky Edge R2305 2800 Kv motor additional bench testing with different ESCs

Hi Everyone -

While testing another motor, I did some more testing with the SunnySky Edge R2305 2800 Kv motor.😊  You can read more about my initial impressions and bench testing on this motor at this blog post and my initial field testing at this blog post.

You can read the full details on my motor test spreadsheet.  This motor continues to be quite "amp hungry" regardless of the ESC.

Of the three ESCs, Turnigy Plush 40A, HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A and Turnigy AE-45, it seems to like the Turnigy AE-45 with the custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 Khz.  It showed a slight improvement at mid throttle over the Plush and the best improvement of all three ESCs at full throttle.  Here are the numbers for the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with 6x4 APC gas prop on 3S.  Links for all of these available on the spreadsheet.

50% throttle - 14.9A/179.5W producing 565 gr/19.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 45.3A/506.1W producing 1065 gr/37.6 oz of thrust.

So this amp draw is pushing the ESC to it's base limit, I will have to field test it to see if there is any significant heat build up in either the motor or ESC, but I was happy to see some improvement😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

DYS Samguk Shu 2306 2800 Kv motor initial impressions and testing

Hi Everyone -

Received my DYS Samguk Shu 2306 2800 Kv motor in the mail today😊  Regular price is $12.58 USD although I got mine on sale for $9.90 which is still the price as of writing this post, although it is currently out of stock for the second time since the motor was released.  Must be popular😉

Just basic packaging, even comes with a bit of a Chinese proverb/story?

Standard bag of goodies, prop nut, mounting screws and a couple extra C clips.

Top view of motor, shaft is hollow on the top, as you can see in the second picture it is solid towards the bottom.

Bottom view.  This is a "naked bottom" motor that seems to becoming a popular design in quad racing motors to keep weight down.  The bolt pattern is actually 16x16 mm as opposed to 16x19 mm.  This also seems to be a current trend in the newer quad racing motors.  It is a bit of an optical illusion, the magnets are flat, not curved like some of the higher end motors, but that would be expected for the price.

The motor spins smoothly, no bumps, but the magnets don't feel as strong as some of the other motors I have tested, again could be due to the inexpensive price.

Motor weight without hardware is 32 gr/1.1 oz.  Banggood website says 33.56 gr.  Motor wires are 150 mm/5.9" long.

Motor weight ready to go in the plane with prop and hardware is 46 gr/1.6 oz.

Due to the bolt pattern, I will have to trust the X mount will stay connected with two screws.  Co-pilot gives his approval👍😉 

I managed to get some initial bench testing done with the three ESCs I have been using/testing, you can read the details on my motor test spreadsheet, if you scroll along the bottom of the spreadsheet, you will find this motor has it's own tab. Since the Turnigy Plush 40A is the one I will use for initial field testing to keep it consistent with all the other initial field testing I have done, here are the numbers.  Using the 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery (links are available for these on the spreadsheet).

50% throttle - 14.3A/175.3W producing 525 gr/18.5 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 40.1A/458.0W producing 965 gr/34.0 oz of thrust.

So it is definitely an "amp hungry" little beast at full throttle.  I must admit I expected the numbers to be higher, but as I have learned, the bench numbers don't always reflect field performance, so it is in my test bed Mig-35B and ready for some action in the air😊  As often happens, there is not published maximum amps for this motor, according to some charts on the Banggood website, it pulled 42A in some testing, so I will have to see how the motor responds in the air.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers, 

Scott

SunnySky Edge R2305 2800 Kv motor initial impressions and bench testing

Hi Everyone -

After waiting 40 days😣 for my SunnySky Edge R2305 2800 Kv motor to arrive, it is finally here😀  I ordered from AliExpress as Banggood was out of stock at the time and AliExpress had a good deal.  They list it as regularly priced at $41.00 USD, I picked mine up for $20.90.  They are also available at Banggood for a regular price of $23.71 USD.  So this makes me scratch my head a bit, the sale at AliExpress is over tomorrow, so I'll be interested to see what the price is then😒, $41.00 seems a bit much to spend for a motor😲

This is only the second time I have ordered from AliExpress, I did find the shipping was very, very slow, almost a week and a half longer than my average Banggood order, so it might be awhile before I order from them again, but here endeth the rant😉

Motor packed nicely in some very dense foam.

I was a bit worried when I saw this label, as I was sure I had ordered CW (clockwise) motors, but then when I looked back at the AliExpress website, I actually didn't get to choose that, only the Kv.  This relates to the direction that the nut tightens as the motors can run whatever direction you want them.  However, after unboxing, the threads are clockwise so that I can still use all the little bullet nuts I have laying around😊

Motor comes with one prop nut, four mounting screws and some very thin brass and what look like steel washers, plus a couple of extra C clips which is a nice touch.

The motor weighs 32 gr/1.1 oz with no hardware (AliExpress says it weighs 29 gr).  The wires are 120mm/4.7" long. 

Bottom and top views of the motor.  As you can see it is wound with several strands of thin wire to allow it to have such a high Kv.  The magnets are quite thin, it is difficult to see if they are curved or not, the air gaps are not bad and tolerances between the magnets and stator look pretty good.

I grabbed this picture from the SunnySky link in the first paragraph.  It does look like a slight curve in the magnets and according to the description they are N52 arc magnets which is common in most higher end powerful motors.  The motor spins very smooth and freely by hand, no jerkiness, however the magnets don't feel quite as strong and "grabby" as some other motors in this size and Kv category that I have tested.

With the prop, X mount, connectors and other hardware, the motor going in the plane weighs 48 gr which is pretty decent for this size motor.

I did get one quick bench test done as I hope to fly and field test tomorrow.  I did this test with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC, timing at low, 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery which has been my standard for testing these quad racing motors.  You can read more details here as well as get the links for all the aforementioned gear on my motor test spreadsheet.

Here are the numbers from this test.

50% throttle - 14.3A/173.6W producing 556 gr/19.6 oz of thrust; and

100% throttle - 41.6A/502.1W producing 1030 gr/36.3 oz of thrust.

So it is pretty amp hungry at full throttle with this setup.  It's numbers are not quite as good as some of the other motors in it's size and Kv range, but I won't know how it really performs until I get a chance to get it in a plane and out to the field😀  Also, when I have a chance in the next few days I will test it with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A and Turnigy AE-45A ESCs with the custom settings I found for some of these high Kv motors and see if that makes a difference.

More test data to follow soon😁

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

What difference does a stiffer prop make?

Hi Everyone -

Yesterday I was doing some bench testing with the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor, and by mistake made an interesting discovery😏  You can read more about that testing on this blog post.

One of the props I tested was the 6x4 KMP prop which I discovered sometimes have a bit of a quality control issue which I wrote about in this blog post.

Essentially, here are pictures of the two props when I bent them, first the bad prop.

This is the good prop, I had to push on the hub to get it to bend this much, so it is the stiffness it is supposed to be😊 

As I was doing the testing, I saw the "bad" prop laying on my very clean, well organized work bench...NOT!!!😬😳😵, anyway, I assumed it was the good prop and put it on and did a test.  Then as I as changing it out for another prop, I was surprised how flexible it was and realized my error.  I dug the good prop out of my flight box where I had left it after some field testing and put that on and retested that😉  These numbers are using the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz of PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency on 3S.

"bad" prop results

50% throttle - 17.6A/216W producing 555 gr/19.6 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 38.4A/434.3W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

"good" prop results

50% throttle - 15.2A/184.4W producing 585 gr/20.6 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 36.7A/428.1W producing 1065 gr/37.6 oz of thrust.

I had always known that more flexible props were inefficient, but due to my error and having received on bad prop from Banggood, I am now able to see clearly the difference as these props are identical other than their stiffness.  It is fairly easy to see that the flex in the prop not only produces less thrust, but causes the system to work much harder by drawing more amps to produce this thrust.  Then as the throttle setting/RPM get higher, there is an even larger difference in results.

Over time as I have experimented with props, the stiffer the prop normally results in better power and efficiency as well as a prop that runs more quietly, but nice to see numbers that back that up😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor bench test session - 24 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I did a bit more experimenting with testing the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor today with a couple of different prop and ESC combos.  In bench and field testing, this has proven to be the most powerful quad racing motor under 2700 Kv that I have tested and in fact one of the most powerful overall.  It has reached 1000 or more gr of thrust with six different combos of props and ESCs on 3S, however one of them I probably would not use due to the quite high amp draw at full throttle.  It is one of the few quad racing motors that I have tested to show results that high at full throttle.

You can read the results of the testing on my motor test spreadsheet, by scrolling along the bottom, you will find the tab for this motor to see the results.  I have highlighted in light green the best setup for each ESC I have tested with thus far.  I did not test it with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A with these props below as I have that dedicated right now to another plane and might never run this motor with that ESC.

Today I tested with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and Turnigy AE-45 ESCs using the 6x4 KMP and Master Airscrew 6x4x3 props.  You can find links to these ESCs and props on the spreadsheet.  The KMP has produced some very good numbers on the bench, I only have one of them right now, so I haven't done a lot of field comparison just yet.  I tested the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop as I had run that a lot on the DYS BE2208/7 2600 Kv motor a lot in the past, so I wanted to see how this motor made out with it.

So I saw some pretty decent results.  With the Plush ESC, the 6x4 KMP produced some good mid range and top end results, better on the bench than the 6x4 APC gas prop.  Although the MA 6x4x3 produced slightly better top end thrust, it's mid range results dropped off considerably compared to the other two props and I know from experience that third blade does cause some drag in the air.  So it would be a matter of field testing the 6x4 KMP and 6x4 APC gas to decide which was the better performer for my flying style.

With the Turnigy AE-45 using the custom settings I found of 22.5 degrees for timing and 24 KHz of PWM frequency, again the 6x4 KMP had very good bench results, significantly more top end thrust 65 gr/2.3 oz than the 6x4 APC gas, but slightly less (15 gr) mid range power.  Mid range efficiency is pretty much the same with both these props pulling the same number of amps.  At full throttle, the extra 65 gr of thrust required 0.8 more amps drawn, so not too bad.

With the AE-45 ESC, the MA 6x4x3 has good top end thrust, again over 1000 gr (1035), but comes at a big amp penalty, drawing 40.7A or 11% more amps than the KMP prop and produces less thrust, so I don't think I would use this prop with this ESC.  Hobby King rates this as a 39.1A motor, I personally think it could handle more than that, but if I have another prop that produces more thrust for less amps, I'll go with that all day.  As well, with a significant loss of mid range power (45 gr less than the 6x4 KMP), it makes that decision even easier😊

So I am thinking about using this motor on a project I am currently pondering for the near future, so good to know I have a couple of options of props to try out, I will probably at this point go with the Turnigy AE-45 and evaluate the 6x4 KMP or 6x4 APC gas.😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Monster bench test session - 18 Feb 2018 :)

Hi Everyone -

I managed to get quite a bit more bench testing done today to fill in the blanks with several of the quad racing motors I had not tested on custom settings with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A and Turnigy AE-45A ESCs.  For all the complete details, you can go to my motor test spreadsheet.  I used the 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery for all testing, links to these are on the spreadsheet.

I will go through the motors that I updated today and what I tested.  I used custom settings on both ESCs mentioned above based on testing I have done already with a few other motors.  With the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A, I used timing setting of 26.25 degrees and PWM frequency of 8 KHz.  For the Turnigy AE-45A ESC, I used timing of 22.5 degrees and PWM of 24 KHz.  I must caveat that the Plush I am currently using is the V3.1, Hobby King currently sells the V4.2, so perhaps the numbers would be better with the V4.2 than mine.

2212/6 2200 Kv

I tested this motor with the HobbyWing ESC with the custom settings above and saw an increase in the mid throttle power over the previous best combo of the AE-45A at factory default of 23 gr at a cost of a 2A increase in amp draw, but then saw a 25 gr drop in full throttle thrust.  I think for this motor, just the simple "plug and play" of using the AE-45A default settings is the best way to go.

Foxeer DATURA X2206 2700 Kv

This motor is quite interesting as the differences in thrust and amps drawn is not huge between the Turnigy Plush, HobbyWing and AE-45A ESCs.  About 20 gr more mid range thrust with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, a little bit more top end thrust with the AE, so since the AE is the least expensive of the three ESCs, this makes me happy and I would probably run this with the AE ESC.😊

BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv

Again, not a whole lot of difference between the three ESCs with this motor, a bit more mid range power with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, actually less top end power and it becomes quite amp hungry at full throttle with the AE ESC at full throttle producing a bit less power than the Plush.  I will have to experiment, I like that the AE does have such good results again as it is the least expensive of the three.

BrotherHobby Returner R2 2205 2800 Kv

Again, probably personal choice here, although with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, it has slightly better mid range and full power though quite a bit more amp hungry at full throttle with both these ESCs compared to the Plush.  The numbers for the HobbyWing and AE ESCs are identical in thrust at mid and full throttle, the HobbyWing is a bit more efficient at mid and full throttle, but considering it is almost twice the price of the AE, I would probably opt to use the AE again in this case.

As I transitioned to the lower Kv motors, this is where I started to see the biggest improvement in performance compared to the numbers with the Plush.

Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv

This motor performs better at mid and full throttle with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs.  Best top end thrust with the HobbyWing (15 gr more than the AE) with the custom settings, slightly better mid range with the AE (only 10 gr increase).  This is the most expensive motor I have tested (although I got mine on sale😀) and is the most powerful at mid range and full throttle of the motors below 2700 Kv, so it is good that it performs so well with the less expensive AE ESC.

These next two RC Timer motors are seriously happy with the Turnigy AE ESC😀

RC Timer FR2306 2650 Kv

Although this motor did show very good improvement with the HobbyWing ESC, the AE performance edges it out in mid range, full throttle and price😉  It shows incredible improvement over the Plush ESC when using the AE ESC at 50% throttle, a 62 gr improvement in thrust with only a 0.5 increase in amps.  At full throttle, it improved by 102 gr!😲with a 2.7A increase in amp draw, but this takes the motor to it's limit, it is rated as a 33A motor, it is drawing 33.6A which I think will be fine, I look at it as this motor being fully optimized using the AE ESC with the custom settings as it will probably pull much less than that in the air.😊

RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv

This is the first quad racing motor I experimented with, so I was really happy to see the increase in performance here😊  The numbers with the more expensive HobbyWing are very good and a definite improvement over the Plush, but the AE numbers are the best.  I saw an improvement of 66 gr of thrust at mid throttle for an increase of only 0.6A draw and a 111 gr increase in thrust at full throttle for only 2.3 more amps drawn😲 and the motor is still under it's amp limit of 32A😀

I don't want to draw a whole bunch of conclusions just yet until I get a chance to get out and field test most of these motors with the Turnigy AE to ensure they run smoothly in the air.  It seems that 2200-2600 Kv motors is where the biggest improvement in performance happens when using the AE ESC compared to the Plush ESCs I have been using.  This is good news as other than the Multistar Viking, these are all fairly inexpensive motor, so if pairing them with an inexpensive ESC improves their performance, that is not only optimizing their performance, but getting the best bang for the buck!😊

Other than the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor, the rest of the motors at 2700 or higher Kv thus far are fairly happy with any of the ESCs, although mid range power is typically better with the AE or HobbyWing ESCs.  However, it did take quite a bit of testing and experimenting to find this, as you can see with some of the motors I have tested, with the higher Kv motors, factory default settings with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs leave a lot to be desired.

I do have some other very high Kv motors on the way to test which perhaps will also like the HobbyWing ESCs better, but from a cost standpoint, if most of them still run really well with the Plush or AE ESCs, that will be a cost saving as the HobbyWing ESCs are very good, but also quite expensive at $40 USD.

More testing to come, but this whole process continues to be very educational😁

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Bench testing Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv motor with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC - 16 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

Now that I have the issue solved with my Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv motor (you can read more about that at this blog post😳), I decided to run it through some testing with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC.

You can read the full details on my motor test spreadsheet.  By scrolling along the bottom, you will find a tab that says ESC testing using this motor.  I had already run a full series using the Racerstar BR2306 2700 Kv motor, you can find the tab for that motor along the bottom of the spreadsheet as well.

By doing the testing on the BR2306 2700 motor, it gave me some clues where not to bother wasting time testing the BR2406 2600 Kv motor, but I ran the motor on the factory defaults for the Turnigy AE-45A ESC anyway (15 degrees timing, 12 KHz PWM frequency).

So, for discussion, here are some thrust results, starting first with the AE-45 on factory default settings.  Prop used for all testing is the 6x4 APC gas and the battery is the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C, you can find links for these on the motor spreadsheet.

50% throttle - 11.2A/136.5W producing 465 gr/16.4 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 30.1A/356.1W producing 920 gr/32.5 oz of thrust.

On the spreadsheet, I have highlighted in light green the best settings I would use for each ESC I have tested with this motor.  For discussion here they are, remembering that my Turnigy Plush is V3.1 and Hobby King currently carries V4.2.  I have listed from lowest to highest performance.

Turnigy Plush (timing low, factory default)

50% throttle - 11.5A/141.5W producing 487 gr/17.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.8A/352.3W producing 935 gr/33 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC (timing 26.25 degrees/8 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 12.3A/149.7W producing 508 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.6A/369.5W producing 948 gr/33.4 oz of thrust.

Turnigy AE-45A ESC (timing 22.5 degrees/24 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 12.7A/155.1W producing 530 gr/18.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 34.2A/411.6W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

So looking at all these numbers and factoring efficiency from a standpoint of how much thrust is produced for each amp drawn, they are all pretty much dead equal.  What I have learned and now look for with these smaller quad racing motors is the best and most efficient mid range power.  Due to their smaller size, they may not have the same torque as a bigger, heavier 2212 size motor, but it seems that thus far, the better mid range power makes up for this lack of size somewhat.

I know that the amp draw at the top end climbs considerably for not a whole lot of increase in top end power, but sometimes I think I have to take that as a compromise to have better power at mid range where I spend more than 80% of my time when flying.

What is interesting with both the HobbyWing and AE-45 ESCs is that as soon as I switched from the factory default PWM frequency, the mid range power jumped significantly with varying increases in top end power.  I would be interested to know what type of motor these two ESCs are set up for at the factory.  I suspect maybe helicopters?  I did see something in the comments on the AE-45 that flashing it with BL-heli firmware made it work better?  Not something I will probably try, but interesting to see how experimenting with the different settings can help to optimize the power output of the motor for what you are looking for.

Thus far, I think my workload has already been cut in half if I look to optimize the settings for each motor as factory PWM settings don't seem to be optimized for smaller, higher Kv quad and park jet motors.  It will be interesting to see if there is a natural cutoff between motors less than 2700 Kv and those at 2700 Kv or higher as the optimum settings with the AE-45 for the Racerstar BR2306 2700 Kv motor are different than the BR2406 as you can read in this blog post.

So I will continue to experiment and update the spreadsheet as I go along😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

DYS and Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv bench test showdown

Hi Everyone -

I have been slowly catching up with bench testing since receiving my new thrust stand😊

For over a year now, I have been using the DYS 2208/7 2600 Kv motor in several of my park jets and have been enjoying it's power and versatility running a few different props on 3S.  Through my recent period of bench and field testing motors, I have also been experimenting with the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv quad racing motor.  Here is a picture of the two motors side by side, the Viking motor on the left, the DYS motor on the right.

Some basic comparisons before talking about bench and field performance.

Weight - With all the mounting hardware and props, the DYS motor weighs 56 gr/2.0 oz, the Viking motor weighs 52 gr/1.8 oz;

Price - The DYS motor currently sells for $17.22 USD from Banggood, shipping is free.  The Viking motor sells for $28.14 from HobbyKing and shipping is not free.  Fortunately, I picked mine up on sale for $16.10, so that was a bonus😀

The DYS comes with connectors already attached, so it is ready to go out of the package.  The Viking motor requires you have and can attach your own connectors.

Both accept the standard 16x19 mm bolt pattern "X" mount for installing in a park jet.

So how did they perform on the bench?  You can find all the details here on my motor test spreadsheet, but I will discuss a few things below.  I will compare the numbers for the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC, 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery (links to all of these are on the spreadsheet).

DYS 2208 2600

50% throttle - 11.6A/141W producing 485 gr/17.1 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 28.4A/330.5W producing 915 gr/32.3 oz of thrust.

Multistar Viking 2208 2600

50% throttle - 13.5A/163.2W producing 570 gr/20.1 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.9A/384.7W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

Both motors are equally as efficient (ie producing equal ratios of thrust to amps drawn) at 50% and 100% throttle.

So you can see a very significant increase in performance with the Viking motor.

So diving into the specs a bit deeper, the DYS motor I'm assuming has 7 turns of wire around each stator pole.  It is a darker color than on the Viking (sorry, because of the motor construction of both, very hard to see in a picture) and does look like it might be very slightly thicker.  The Viking motor seems to have a bit neater wire application around the stator arms, not that the DYS is sloppy, the Viking is just neater.  The magnets are flat on the DYS motor, the air gap between the magnets is the same as the Viking, the gap between the stator and the magnets is noticeably larger on the DYS motor than the Viking.  Bearings on both seem equally smooth.

The DYS motor is rated for 2-3S, shows a max amp rating of 43.1 using a 7x5 prop on 3S.  Whenever I see the top amp rating pulled from a chart as the max amp rating, I get a little suspicious, the manufacturer should probably have a bit better idea than that I would think.  It is also showing a max wattage of 478W which again they just pulled from their test table.

The Viking motor just seems a little better finished with tighter tolerances.  The magnets are N50 which are fairly strong, the industry standard for higher end motors currently is N52 (higher the number, stronger the magnet)  The magnets are curved and the tolerance between the stator and magnets is very tight.  It has a top amp rating of 39.1 which seems like a strange number, it says it is rated for 4S and 630W which is a big increase in wattage over the DYS motor.

The Viking motor is definitely more of a racing motor which you would hope so for the price😏  If you look at the thrust numbers using the higher end HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC with the settings I found optimum for higher Kv motors, the thrust jumped to 1015 gr/35.8 oz, an increase of 45 gr of thrust over the Plush performance.  With the DYS motor, it only jumped up to 935 gr/33.0 oz, an increase of only 20 gr of thrust over the Plush settings.

I suspect that the Viking motor is running much closer to it's rated Kv, perhaps the DYS motor not so much.  I have run the DYS motor quite a bit with the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop and it handled that well, not as fast as the 6x4 APC gas prop, but gave a bit softer feel, almost like the throttle had a little bit of expo if you just wanted to cruise around.

So price does become a bit of an issue, it is worth a little less than 5% increase in performance for a 60+% increase in cost?  I guess only the purchaser can decide.  I have had some quality control issues with the DYS motors, 3 of 4 I purchased run about equal, one has very stiff bearings and runs about 20% less powerful than the other three.  

The Viking motor seems much better made and did perform better on the bench and I think has a lot more potential for power with some experimentation with props, batteries and ESCs, plus it is rated to handle 4S.  If you find it on sale like I did at cheaper than the DYS motor, it is definitely worth a try😀

So next up, time to put them in a plane and do a showdown at the field 😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Turnigy AE-45A ESC - testing timing and PWM combinations

Hi Everyone -

I have been catching up on some testing with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC the last couple days😊  You can read more about my initial impressions and testing with factory defaults and the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor at this blog post.  That motor performed very well with the factory defaults, however, as you can see in the discussion below, it took a little more research to find the right setting for a higher Kv motor.

Like I did with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC, I decided to run through the entire series of combinations of timing (8 different settings) and PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency (2 of those), so a total of 16 different runs to find the best combination.  I had wanted to use the Racerstar BR2406S 2600 Kv motor like I did with the HobbyWing test, but it wasn't running that great (problem now fixed and will be the subject of another article😏)  If you want to read about the advanced testing on the HobbyWing ESC, please go to this blog article.  For this series of testing, I used the Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor as it is quite similar in performance to the BR2406 2600 and is the same brand.

So here is what the manual says about timing.

Timing: 0/3.75/7.5/11.25/15/18.75/22.5/26.25 degrees, default is 15 degrees.  Usually, low timing is suitable for most motors.  But there are many difference among structures and parameters of different motors so please try and select the most suitable timing value according to the motor you are just using.  The correct timing value makes the motor run smoothly.  And generally, higher timing value brings out higher output power and higher speed.

So similar to the HobbyWing which also has 15 degrees as default timing, if low timing is suitable for most motors, why did they choose a setting almost in the middle as default?!😕  Also, if you don't have a thrust test setup, how are you going to know what timing will work best with the "motor you are just using"?!

Here is what the manual says about PWM timing.  Note that this ESC has 12 and 24 KHz as options, the HobbyWing has 8 and 12 KHz.

PWM frequency:  12 KHz/24 KHz, default is 12 HKz.  For motors with high Kv (high speed) and many poles, the 24 KHz PWM frequency may let them work more smoothly.  But the higher PWM frequency will make the ESC to be hotter.

Again, almost word for word to what the HobbyWing manual says😏

All the details are available here on my motor test spreadsheet.

For the sake of discussion, let's look at a few of the numbers.  Here is the performance with the Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor, 6x4 APC gas prop using the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery.  Links to these can be found on the spreadsheet.  This motor based on the specs on the Banggood website is supposedly a 35A max load current motor, but that is based on their test charts, perhaps the motor can be pushed harder, but I used this number in decisions I discuss later.

Factory default (15 degrees timing/12 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 10.7A/133.6W producing 480 gr/16.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 34.7A/399.4W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

Compared to the Turnigy Plush (factory default settings) and HobbyWing (with the custom settings), the 50% throttle power is about 25 gr lower.

As you will note on the spreadsheet, at times the high end thrust was up and down, but mostly in the neighborhood of about 955 gr or so regardless of timing or PWM.  One thing you can see with the 50% throttle thrust is that as soon as the PWM is changed to 24 Khz, the mid range power is much better until the timing gets to the two highest settings then it falls off considerably.  So interestingly for a higher Kv motor, I would not go with default PWM setting right away because of the increase in mid range power.  Although I do like to rip around at full throttle pretty regularly, I spend about 80% of my time at about 60% throttle, so best mid range power is important to me.

So after switching the PWM to 24 Khz, here are a couple of timing settings that stood out for comparison. 

Timing 3.75 degrees

50% throttle - 14.6A/176.5W producing 510 gr/18 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 33.9A/397.6W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

Timing 15 degrees (factory default timing)

50% throttle - 11.3A/138.6W producing 510 gr/18 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 35.7A/424.8W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

So keeping in mind what I mentioned earlier about my flying style, even though I would be drawing more amps for a little less (5 gr) thrust with the timing at 15 degrees, I would select that as my timing with 24 KHz as the PWM.  The reason being is that when I look at the 50% throttle setting, even though the thrust produced is the same, with 3.75 degrees as the timing setting, it pulls close to 30% more amps to produce this power!😲  Given that I spend about 80% of my time close to this throttle setting, the amp draw at mid range would be too high for my liking with 3.75 degrees timing.  I may experiment with this at the field, but will start off with the 15 degrees timing/24 Khz PWM combo.

Of note I think is that this custom setting I discovered produces almost identical numbers to the Turnigy Plush default settings.  The HobbyWing 40A ESC with the custom settings I found for that for high Kv motors produces more top end thrust, but about the same mid range as the AE and Plush ESCs.

So again, it was interesting testing.  I guess what makes me scratch my head again is that without a thrust test setup and watt meter, how is your average person going to find out these optimal custom settings that they encourage you to experiment with in the manual?😕

Field testing to start very soon😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott