Thrust stand test session - EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor - 07 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I had my thrust stand out today doing another round of testing, this time with the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor which is by a narrow margin the most powerful quad racing motor I have tested thus far😊  It is the motor I have been running in my RC Powers T50 V5 for the last couple weeks.

Today, I tested this motor with the 6x4 APC gas prop, the Hobby King 6x4 APC style electric prop, and the 6x4 KMP prop from Banggood.  I tested each prop using the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and then the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC.  Some very interesting and also somewhat puzzling😕 results, but the numbers are what the numbers are.😉

All tests were done using the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery.  The timing on the Turnigy Plush is at low (factory default), the HobbyWing ESC is set at 26.25 degrees and PWM (pulse width modulation frequency) is set at 8KHz.  These are not factory defaults, you can read more about my previous experimentation with the HobbyWing ESC in this blog post.

This motor definitely likes the HobbyWing ESC with the settings I have set, it has marked improvement at 50% and full throttle with all three props compared to their performance with the Turnigy Plush.😀

The overall best combination proved to be the 6x4 KMP prop with the HobbyWing ESC.  Numbers are below (you can also read the full details on my motor spreadsheet).

50% throttle - 18.3A/219.4W producing 635 gr/22.4 oz of thrust; and

100% throttle - 41.6A/482.7W producing 1120 gr/39.5 oz of thrust.

This is where it becomes a bit puzzling, as the numbers with the 6x4 APC electric knock off from Hobby King are nearly identical, same top end thrust, just 5 gr less at 50% throttle.  The 6x4 APC gas prop with the HobbyWing ESC produced 1075 gr/37.9 oz of thrust😕  Still decent numbers, but the 6x4 APC gas prop pulls 42.6A to produce less thrust in this situation, so a bit puzzling after the 6x4 APC gas prop performing so well for me to date.

Some of these amp number exceed 40, but this ESC has a 60A burst rating and normally, in the air the rule of thumb is that there will be about a 25% drop in amp draw, so 42.6A would become about 32A.  I will check the ESC regularly for heat build up.  According to the HobbyKing website, the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor should be able to handle up to 58A if you click on the "Product Specifications" tab when you open the link to the motor.

The best prop with the Turnigy Plush ESC turned out again to be the 6x4 KMP prop, then the 6x4 APC electric, then the 6x4 APC gas.  So comparing my results with rcplanepirate's, the main difference is my stand tests in a "puller" configuration, perhaps in the air with a "pusher", the 6x4 APC electric won't perform as well or differently?  I certainly know from testing it with several other motors with the Plush ESC at the field, the 6x4 APC gas has proven to be a very good performer in the air.  Only one way to find out, so time to put the motor back in my T50, put the HobbyWing ESC in there and get it out to the field with all three props and see what is what😀  The 6x4 APC electric and 6x4 KMP are certainly louder than the 6x4 APC gas prop, so time for a "fly off"😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

40A ESC field test - Turnigy Plush vs HobbyWing Platinum PRO - 06 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I had a bit of a break in the weather today to get this little beauty out to get some comparative field testing done with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC.😊

Video of today's field testing

Before going too far, I must mention that the Turnigy Plush 40A ESCs I am using were purchased a few years ago, so they are version 3.1.

As you can see from this picture taken from the current Hobby King website, they are now up to version 4.2.

You can see when you compare the two pictures, that the BEC (battery elimination circuit) on my version is 3A/5V and the newer version 4.2 has a 5V/5A BEC.  I don't know if any other upgrades occurred, however if you buy a new one, perhaps your performance will differ from mine.  I guess if I'm still using ESCs that are over three years old with all the flying I do, they must be "Bulletproof"😉😏

Here is a close up of the HobbyWing ESC.

You can read more of my initial impressions and testing of the HobbyWing ESC at this blog post.  For more on the testing process I went through to find the best settings for the motor used in today's field test (Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv), you can go to this blog post.  If you would rather just see the numbers from the testing straight away, please go my motor spreadsheet, along the bottom you will see a tab called ESC testing.

So details on today's testing as mentioned in the video, motor used is in brackets above, prop is the 6x4 APC gas prop used for all the bench testing.  Battery is the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C

Settings for the Plush ESC in this test are factory default, timing is low which as you can see on the motor spreadsheet gave the best overall performance in bench testing.

Settings for the HobbyWing ESC in this test are timing set to 26.25 degrees, PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency set to 8KHz.  These have to be programmed as the factory settings are 15 degrees for timing and 12KHz for the PWM frequency.

So for comparison for this blog post, here are the bench test numbers using the 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace battery.

Plush

50% throttle - 11.5A/141.5W producing 487 gr/17.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.8A/352.3W producing 935 gr/33 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing

50% throttle - 11.9A/146.1W producing 507 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 32.2A/387.4W producing 940 gr/33.2 oz of thrust.

So you can see by the numbers, there is very little difference in top end thrust and I would agree with that from what I saw at the field today.  However, as I mention in the video, there is a definite and noticeable difference at mid range throttle between 50-75%.  I found at 50% throttle on launch, the plane almost wanted to pull itself out of my hand with the HobbyWing ESC and it definitely flew faster at 60% throttle (my normal setting for just flying around) than with the Plush.

After shooting the video, I managed to get a few more flights in before it started raining using the HobbyWing ESC.  I saw noticeable difference in throttle response again between about 60-75% throttle both up and down.  A couple times when I decreased the throttle it happened so quickly I thought something was wrong with the motor and when hammering the "burners"😎, I did notice a slight improvement in acceleration with the HobbyWing ESC.  Beyond 75% throttle and below 50%, response was pretty much identical for both ESCs.

So far I have not noticed any issues with motor skipping, sagging or surging.  As I mention at the end of the video, with some motors I have tested where I have experimented with changing timing, the motor will run fine for awhile and then respond erratically to throttle inputs or just sag in power without the throttle being touched.  I didn't see any of that today with the HobbyWing ESC, mind you I only got about five flights completed before I had to cut the session short due to rain.

So far so good with the field testing, but I will continue to test with other motors to see if the performance continues to be consistent.😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom.

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session 2212/5T 2700 Kv motor - 05 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I was busy with the thrust stand again today, testing a very inexpensive motor that I have run in many of my planes in the last couple years, the 2212/5T 2700 Kv, I got mine from Gear Best.

This type of motor is readily available all over the internet, I have seen several vendors on EBay and even purchased a couple from Banggood.  Unfortunately, the ones I got from Banggood ran extremely hot and pulled well in excess of 40A, so I don't know what happened there😒  It is quite a bit heavier than most of the quad racing motors I have been testing at 66 gr/2.3 oz and you must provide your own connectors and prop mounting adapter/collet, so that adds a bit to the price.  I buy my 3.17 mm adapters from RC Timer as they are inexpensive and pretty decent quality.

Rcplanepirate has done considerable testing with this motor and shot a couple of videos, you can find his YouTube channel here.

You can read the full details on my motor spreadsheet, I have created a new page just for this motor, along the bottom you can find the tab to click to take you to the page.

Today I tested three different props I have run on this motor in the past on 3S

• 6x4 APC gas;
• 6x4 APC style electric (Hobby King knock off); and
• 6x4 KMP (Banggood)

 I also experimented with two different ESCs that I have been comparing recently.

• Turnigy Plush 40A ESC (timing set to low (factory default) as this seems to work best);
• HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC (timing set at 26.25 degrees and running at 8HKz PWM frequency as this seems to be the best for higher Kv motors).  You can read more about how I found this out through experimentation at this blog post

This test session once again proved that I can never take anything for granted until I do the testing and see the numbers😐  I have been raving about the 6x4 APC gas prop for several months now being so much better than the 6x4 APC electric knock off from Hobby King and it has been both on the bench and in the air.  Well, the numbers were so much better at full throttle with the 6x4 APC style electric with the HobbyWing ESC, I had to do the test a second time to make sure I didn't do anything wrong😕

This motor produced significantly more thrust at full throttle with all three props using the HobbyWing ESC with the settings above.  The 6x4 KMP produced the most thrust at 1060 gr/37.4 oz of thrust, but drew 39.1A to do so, a bit high I think for this motor.  Where I really had to scratch my head is that the 6x4 APC gas prop produced 999 gr/35.2 oz of thrust drawing 35.6A, then the 6x4 APC style electric produced 1045 gr/36.9 oz of thrust and only drew 35.7A to do so!😲  This prop also produced the most mid range thrust with this ESC as you can see on the spreadsheet.

Using the Turnigy Plush ESC, the definite thrust winner is the 6x4 KMP at 1020 gr/36 oz drawing 35.7A which I think is in the ball park for this motor from my many flights even in warm weather.

I was actually surprised now that I tested them on an actual proper thrust stand that the 6x4 APC gas and 6x4 APC style electric were pretty much dead even in mid range and top end thrust.  Again, a real head scratcher, but some very good numbers for such an inexpensive motor.  Of course the HobbyWing ESC is not a cheap ESC, but I think it will be worth putting this motor in a plane with this ESC and the 6x4 APC style electric prop and see what happens since I have a couple😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Thrust stand test sessions - 02/03 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I have been quite busy the last couple of days getting some testing done with the HobbyWing Platinum 40A ESC PRO I received a few days ago.  I will warn you ahead of time, there are a lot of numbers being thrown around here and on the spreadsheet linked below, so towards the end I have tried to distill out what I think are the best settings for each ESC for the motor I tested today.

You can read more about my initial thoughts and initial testing with this ESC here at this blog post.

Yesterday, I decided to test several of the quad racing motors I have (a couple didn't get tested as they are in planes right now and I was a bit too lazy to pull them out 😳)  I tested these motors with all the default settings just like I had tested the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor mentioned in the blog post above.  I was quite surprised when the numbers were quite a bit lower than they were with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC.  Bit of a headscratcher, especially in the mid range power.  You can read the numbers on my motor spreadsheet, click on the tab labelled Quad racing motors.

So I reached out to rcplanepirate to get some ideas why there might be this reduction in performance.  He reminded me of a conversation we had awhile back that some experimentation would probably be required with this HobbyWing ESC as it has so many options for settings.  He suggested trying different timing options and also switching the PWM frequency settings.  So this morning I got some batteries charged, got out the thrust stand and away we went😊

The following texts are quoted from the HobbyWing ESC manual regarding timing and PWM frequency settings.  As you can see, a lot of options for timing.

Timing:  0 degrees/3.75 degrees/7.5 degrees/11.25 degrees/15 degrees (factory default)/18.75 degrees/22.5 degrees/26.25 degrees.

Usually, low timing value is suitable for most motors.  But there are many difference among structures and parameters of different motors so please try and select the most suitable timing value according to the motor you are just using.  The correct timing value makes the motor run smoothly.  And generally, higher timing value brings out higher output power and higher speed.

PWM Frequency:  12KHz/8 KHz, default is 12KHz.
For some motors with high Kv (high speed) and many poles, the 12KHz PWM frequency may let them work more smoothly.  But the higher PWM frequency will make the ESC hotter.  Generally the 8KHz frequency is suitable for most motors.

Now, having read that, not to put my "whiney pants" on, but there are a lot of generalities there.😒  All the motors ran smoothly in the brief tests, so I'm not sure exactly what is supposed to happen when they don't run smoothly, might have to find that out in the air.  Second, if the 8KHz frequency is suitable for most motors, why is it not the default PWM frequency?!  Head scratching continues...you will see more what I mean later in this post😏

So to capture everything all together, I created a new page on the motor spreadsheet called ESC testing.  I chose one motor, the Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv as it is kind of in the middle of the pack of the quad racing motors I have tested thus far, bolted on a 6x4 APC prop and got to work.

I also decided to test this motor on the three ESC timing settings (low, medium, high) with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC as I had not done that and was interested to see if there were any major differences.  Interestingly enough, this is what it says in the Plush ESC manual about timing settings (nothing about PWM frequency, so I might have to try and research that a bit more).

Timing:  Low/Medium/High (3.75 degrees/15 degrees/26.25 degrees), default is low.

Usually, low timing or medium timing is suitable for most motors.  In order to get higher speed and bigger output power, please choose High timing.

Interesting, as you will see from my tests, no huge difference and in fact low timing is the best with this motor with the Plush ESC.

So with the HobbyWing ESC, I went through every timing setting initially with the default 12KHz PWM frequency.

Nothing really jumped out at me here, the mid range power was still significantly lower regardless of the timing setting with this PWM compared to the Plush 40A ESC on low timing.  The Plush mid range thrust was still better than any setting by 12 grams or more.  Full throttle settings were all relatively close, nothing that really stood out a whole lot as the timing setting rose, the full throttle thrust did increase until the top level of 26.25 degrees where it seemed to fall off a bit at both top and mid levels😐.

So then I started over, changing the PWM frequency to 8KHz.  This is when I noticed a big change, especially at 50% throttle.  Right away I noticed an increase in mid range power, even at the lowest timing setting.  The lowest mid range power at 8KHz is still 10 gr higher than the highest result at 12KHz and it continued to climb steadily as the timing settings went up, peaking at 43 grams more than the highest mid range thrust at 12KHz.  There wasn't as big an increase in full throttle power, 10 grams more thrust at full throttle at 8 KHz than at 12KHz at the maximum.  Fortunately, at 8KHz, the best mid range and full throttle numbers are at 26.25 degrees timing.

Although there is not a huge difference at 8KHz between 22.5 degrees and 26.25 degrees of timing, at 26.25 degrees it produces a bit more top end thrust at 0.6 less amps drawn.

So looking at the Turnigy Plush numbers, at high timing it produced 3 gr more thrust at mid throttle, but less 10 gr less thrust and pulled 31.2A to do so.  Looking at the numbers, I will stay with low timing for this ESC.  In order to easily compare, here are the best numbers for the Plush ESC with timing at low compared to the HobbyWing ESC with it's best setup.

Plush

50% throttle - 11.5A/141.5W producing 487 gr/17.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.8A/352.3W producing 935 gr/33.0 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing ESC with timing set at 26.25 degrees and PWM frequency set at 8KHz.

50% throttle - 12.3A/149.7W producing 508 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.6A/369.5W producing 948 gr/33.4 oz of thrust.

So while this process was a bit tedious programming the HobbyWing ESC using the transmitter between each test, I learned a lot and it was worth it to go through the process.  Thanks again to RCPP for the tips and ideas.

The HobbyWing ESC does seem to allow the motor to wind up just a tiny bit faster than the Plush, although it is tougher to tell with the motor on the bench, field testing will be necessary to see if this converts into better acceleration.  I have already put this motor in my "beater" RC Powers Su30 V4 and will do field tests comparing the Plush and HobbyWing ESCs on my next available flying day.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Thrust stand test session - 01 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I did some more bench testing today to keep filling in the data on the Banggood 2212/6 2200 Kv motor that I refer to as the "park jet workhorse".  Additionally, I received new HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO ESCs in the mail today, so I wanted to see if there is a difference between those and the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC I currently test with.  You can read more on my initial impressions of the HobbyWing ESCs along with some test comparison numbers at this blog post.

You can read the full details of all of today's testing on the first page of the updated motor test spreadsheet.

In addition to comparing the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs with the same 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery, today I tested the Hobby King knockoff 6x4 APC style electric prop and the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop, again the numbers are available in the spreadsheet link above😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO Brushless ESC initial review and test

Hi Everyone -

After five weeks of waiting, I received my HobbyWing Platinum 40A PRO ESCs from Banggood😀  When I purchased mine, they were on special from the China warehouse for $31.46 USD, they are now $40.16 from the China warehouse and on offer until 28 Feb 2018 for $21.59 from the Banggood US warehouse.  Thanks Banggood😒 😉

I will be comparing it a lot to my current favorite ESC the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC from Hobby King, so from this point I will just refer to them as the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs when comparing.  Here it is out of the package, it comes with 3.5mm bullet connectors already attached and two pieces of pre cut heat shrink to use on the battery leads which I though was a nice touch.

A closeup of the label.  Please note where it says "USB supported" in orange as this will be discussed later in the post.

Close up of my current Turnigy Plush 40A ESC which I think is new to me, but I bought it a couple years ago as the BEC available on the new Turnigy Plush according to the link above now has a 5A BEC.  It sells for $23.91 USD currently, I think I paid less than $20 the last time I bought one from HobbyKing as they have been so durable.

The HobbyWing comes with a very large set of instructions, it definitely has more programmable features than the Plush and can be far better optimized for helicopters reading through it briefly.

After soldering on the XT60 connector and heat shrink, I weighed both ESCs, all the wires are the same guage and same length, so no surprise they ended up the same weight.

As you can see in the following two pictures, they are pretty much identical in size and look identical other than the color of wires and heat shrink.

The HobbyWing is rated to have a 10 second burst of up to 60A, the Plush 55A I assume for 10 seconds as well, I couldn't find a number on the website or in the manual.  Setting the throttle points is the same for both.  Turn on the transmitter, advance the throttle to full, connect the battery, wait for the two solid beeps, place the throttle at zero, then the ESC arms as normal.

Programming

This is where things get a bit interesting😐  The manual for the Hobbywing says "Several kinds of Program Cards are supported", unfortunately, it doesn't support the two cards I have, including the one made by HobbyWing...hmmmm😞  As you can see in these pictures, it does light up the card, but when I tried to make any changes to see if the card would work, it failed to work with both cards even though it indicated it had taken the change😲.  That actually doesn't matter that much to me as the factory defaults are what I want anyway😀

As I mentioned earlier, it can be programmed using a different interface unit available from Banggood for $29.45 USD.  I will probably pass on that for now😉

So I was doing a bit of bench testing anyway, so I had to see if there was any difference between the HobbyWing and Plush ESCs.  I used the same Banggood 2212/6 2200 Kv motor as I have been using for all tests and the same 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery (Links to those are available on this test spreadsheet)  Here are the numbers.

Plush ESC

50% throttle - 10.6A/129.1W producing 440 gr/15.5 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 26.2A/307.5W producing 885 gr/31.2 oz of thrust.

Hobbywing ESC

50% throttle - 9.9A/123.4W producing 433 gr/15.3 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 28.1A/326W producing 912 gr/32.2 oz of thrust.

So mid range not a whole lot of difference, the HobbyWing certainly did allow the motor to wind up a bit more at full throttle although drawing more amps, however another full oz of thrust is interesting😉.  What was noticeable was throttle response, when I advanced to full throttle from zero, it wound up almost immediately, noticeably faster than the Plush.  It certainly took me by surprise, in a good way😏  Although as I mentioned, the Plush is an older version, it is brand new out of the package in the last month since I got my new thrust stand, so it has not had much use.  

So I am pretty excited now to get this into a plane and see how it performs under some stress at the field.😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

RC Powers T50 V5 flight session - 31 Jan 2018

Hi Everyone -

I had this beauty out again yesterday for a bunch more fun😀  I didn't shoot any video of yesterday's session as much of what I was experimenting with required that I fly the plane quite high, so not too exciting😐

I now have 43 flights on this little beauty over three flight sessions and have it and myself really dialed in now😎  With a new plane, especially a fairly high performance one like this T50 with which I am not that familiar, it sometimes takes me a little longer to be fully comfortable with it's behaviors and performance.  In other words I need to get myself "dialed in" somewhat as well😉  I think I am pretty much in sync with this plane now😊  

I did end up sliding the battery back about another 1/4", this didn't really affect my CG or balance point by much, just gave me a better feel on the sticks as it felt just the tiniest bit nose heavy.  Like most things, I think it is just a personal feel that can only be determined as the number of flights increases.  Things are nice and tight around the CG now in the battery bay.

From the front of the 2200 3S battery to the tip of the motor nut measures 8.5"/216 mm, not including the rudder servos which are behind the prop slot, essentially the largest amount of plane weight (battery, ESC, motor, receiver, aileron and elevon servos) are located in this distance.  These roughly add up to 323 gr/11.4 oz.  Given that the AUW of the plane with battery is 552 gr/19.5 oz and the plane measured from the tip of the nose to the tip of the "booms" on the elevons is 37.5"/953.5 mm, this means that 58% of the weight is located within about 23% of the plane's length.  This is pretty impressive and probably contributes to how quick this plane changes direction in the pitch and roll. 

I did decide to experiment with flaps yesterday to see how they would impact slow flight stability and also in shortening landing approach (kind of like a speed brake effect) and allow for softer landing.  I know it seems counter intuitive to buy a Ferrari and then drive it around in second gear😏, but I like to know where the limits are with my planes, especially an air frame like the T50 with which I am not that familiar.

I had to play around with the deflection a bit, starting fairly high at about 5/8" deflection which was too much and found that about 1/2" deflection was adequate.  Not so much for slow flying, but for approach and landing.  Here is a picture of my flaps deflected.

I have my transmitter set up so that they deploy relatively slowly, it takes 2 seconds from the time I flip the switch until they are fully deployed.  I find this easier to handle than the flaps snapping down immediately.  I had also wanted to see what sort of high alpha I might be able to get out of this plane.

So high alpha was a bit of a bust, when the plane was very slow, any more than about 30 degrees AOA (angle of attack) and wing rock came on or the plane just kind of sat there not knowing what to do with itself until it just yawed and rolled unpredictably.  I fear that because I trimmed the rudders down by about 25% from stock that I also did not really have the best rudder authority for high alpha steering.  This isn't a real disappointment, I don't fly a lot of high alpha anyway and I built this plane as a "speedster", a role which it fits quite well.

So I then just flew around slowly, seeing how slow I could get and still attempt relatively flat turns without issue using mostly rudder and occasionally a bit of roll input.  I could get the plane a little bit slower with flaps than without, but when it hit that point of stall, adverse yaw, tip stalls or other adverse behaviors came on unpredictably and aggressively.  Fortunately I experimented with all this above 100 ft so I had time to recover.  If I did any of this at 50 ft or less, I fear I would have been doing a "walk of shame" to pick up whatever remained of my plane😬  It took about 50 ft of altitude to recover from these tip stalls and adverse yaw as I had to let speed build up a bit so that I could get control authority to fly out of the situation.

So lesson learned or relearned, don't fly this plane slow😀  It just isn't happy there and unless I like watching my plane throw "temper tantrums" by putting into situations where it isn't happy, not something I will experiment with anymore😉

As my runway is about 650 ft long, shortening my landing approach is not really something I need to worry about, if I cana't land my park jet in that much runway, I probably need to find another hobby!😲 The flaps did work well as "speed brakes" when experimenting with them on landing, although they did cause the nose to want to drop about 30 degrees without applying any up elevator.  It shortened my landing approach on average about 30% and did make the landings softer, but I actually found the approach to be smoother without flaps than with them.  Also, if I got a little aggressive with the elevator on approach, with the added drag, the nose would pitch up much more than I wanted and the plane would almost stall.  If it was something I really wanted to mess around with, I could mix in some up elevator when the flaps deploy, but I don't think I'll bother.  It was just fun to experiment😊

So next up I think will be a "flyoff" with the F-22 V5.  I have another EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor on the way which will get put into the F-22 so that the power setups will be equal and it will be fun to compare them😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott