"Table Talk" - Foam and reinforcements I use for my park jets

Hi Everyone -

I recently shot this video discussing a bit more on the different foams I use to build my park jets and the reinforcements I use to keep them light, yet strong and durable😊

I also shot this video awhile back discussing my current philosophy on how I build my park jets moving forward.

Links to the foams I use if you are looking for more information.  I imagine you would only be able to purchase from these sites if you live in North America.

• 6mm Depron;
• 6mm Fli-Power Value XPS RC modeling foam (equivalent to Model Plane foam Grade B);
• Adams Readi-board (often referred to as Dollar Tree foam); and
• 3mm Depron.

I forgot to mention in the video that I have written a series of articles about my lessons learned building with Dollar Tree foam, if you navigate the lists of posts along the right side of the page, you can find them listed in several parts.

As mentioned in the video, here are some pictures that hopefully show the difference in the sides of MPF Grade B.  This is the "rough" side looking down the grain of the foam.

Smooth side, again looking down the grain of the foam. 

Links to the carbon reinforcement I use in my park jets.

• 4mm carbon rod; and
• 3mm carbon tube.

There are certainly lots of different foams to build with and ways to reinforce it, I use these foams because I can get them, they are fairly affordable and have just worked well for me over many years of building park jets.😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

RC Powers F-18 V5 motor change number...5?! ;) - 26 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

Had these two steeds out today ripping up the skies😎

Here is flight video of the F-18 V5 using the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor, 6x4 APC gas prop, Turnigy AE-45 ESC on 3S.

If you are interested in more of the details on my latest bench testing session with this powerful little motor as recommended to me by rcplanepirate, please go to this blog post.   If you would like to see results with this motor tested with several other props and on 4S, please check out rcplanepirate's YouTube channel.  

If you are interested in more details about my F-18 V5 as it is modified from the original plans, please check out this blog post.  

As mentioned in the video, I am running custom settings on the Turnigy AE-45A ESC of 22.5 degrees for timing and 24 KHz for PWM frequency.

I was really impressed with this setup, in the past I had run the DYS BE2208/7 2600 Kv motor with both the 6x4 APC gas prop and the Master Airscrew 6x4x3, the Grayson Hobby Super MegaJet V2 on the MA 6x4x3, the 2212/5T 2700 Kv motor with 6x4 APC gas prop.  This Viking motor setup runs the smoothest, strongest and most powerful of them all and is lighter than any of the others.

After I shot the video, I ran this motor/ESC combo pretty hard, flying 10 consecutive flights without a break.  The motor ran smooth and consistent and although the temperature was cool at 5 C/41 F, the motor and ESC were barely warm.  For a smaller motor that is lower Kv than many I have tested, it has considerable torque, perhaps the longer 8 mm stator helps with this and the fact it produces 600 gr/21.2 oz of thrust at 50% throttle.  Towards the end of the flight session, the wind picked up to about 5-10 mph and it powered through without issue, I didn't have to really play around with the throttle much at all over flying in calm winds.

I was also impressed by the smooth delivery of power throughout the throttle range provided by this motor/ESC combo.  With some setups I have tested occasionally, you get kind of "dead spots" in the throttle range (no matter how many times I set the throttle points) where it just doesn't respond that well or you get some motor/ESC combos that the difference between about 80 and 100% throttle is not noticeable.  Not with this setup, the throttle response is very quick and precise.

As mentioned in the video, the F-18 V5 while not a slow poke at all is the "draggiest" plane in my hangar, so having a light powerful motor with lots of torque really makes for an awesome flight experience😀  While a bit pricey at $28.70 USD (price just went up by $0.56 😒), if they go back on sale again (I paid $16.10 for mine), I might pick up another as a spare.

As I have to find homes for all of these quad racing motors I have been testing, I think for sure I will leave this motor in this plane for awhile so that I can get some durability testing done.  It is certainly one of the best overall quad racing motors I have tested thus far and I think has a lot of potential to be pushed harder on 4S maybe or run with a wider variety of props than I use.😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

What difference does a stiffer prop make?

Hi Everyone -

Yesterday I was doing some bench testing with the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor, and by mistake made an interesting discovery😏  You can read more about that testing on this blog post.

One of the props I tested was the 6x4 KMP prop which I discovered sometimes have a bit of a quality control issue which I wrote about in this blog post.

Essentially, here are pictures of the two props when I bent them, first the bad prop.

This is the good prop, I had to push on the hub to get it to bend this much, so it is the stiffness it is supposed to be😊 

As I was doing the testing, I saw the "bad" prop laying on my very clean, well organized work bench...NOT!!!😬😳😵, anyway, I assumed it was the good prop and put it on and did a test.  Then as I as changing it out for another prop, I was surprised how flexible it was and realized my error.  I dug the good prop out of my flight box where I had left it after some field testing and put that on and retested that😉  These numbers are using the Turnigy AE-45A ESC with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz of PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency on 3S.

"bad" prop results

50% throttle - 17.6A/216W producing 555 gr/19.6 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 38.4A/434.3W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

"good" prop results

50% throttle - 15.2A/184.4W producing 585 gr/20.6 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 36.7A/428.1W producing 1065 gr/37.6 oz of thrust.

I had always known that more flexible props were inefficient, but due to my error and having received on bad prop from Banggood, I am now able to see clearly the difference as these props are identical other than their stiffness.  It is fairly easy to see that the flex in the prop not only produces less thrust, but causes the system to work much harder by drawing more amps to produce this thrust.  Then as the throttle setting/RPM get higher, there is an even larger difference in results.

Over time as I have experimented with props, the stiffer the prop normally results in better power and efficiency as well as a prop that runs more quietly, but nice to see numbers that back that up😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor bench test session - 24 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I did a bit more experimenting with testing the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv motor today with a couple of different prop and ESC combos.  In bench and field testing, this has proven to be the most powerful quad racing motor under 2700 Kv that I have tested and in fact one of the most powerful overall.  It has reached 1000 or more gr of thrust with six different combos of props and ESCs on 3S, however one of them I probably would not use due to the quite high amp draw at full throttle.  It is one of the few quad racing motors that I have tested to show results that high at full throttle.

You can read the results of the testing on my motor test spreadsheet, by scrolling along the bottom, you will find the tab for this motor to see the results.  I have highlighted in light green the best setup for each ESC I have tested with thus far.  I did not test it with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A with these props below as I have that dedicated right now to another plane and might never run this motor with that ESC.

Today I tested with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and Turnigy AE-45 ESCs using the 6x4 KMP and Master Airscrew 6x4x3 props.  You can find links to these ESCs and props on the spreadsheet.  The KMP has produced some very good numbers on the bench, I only have one of them right now, so I haven't done a lot of field comparison just yet.  I tested the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop as I had run that a lot on the DYS BE2208/7 2600 Kv motor a lot in the past, so I wanted to see how this motor made out with it.

So I saw some pretty decent results.  With the Plush ESC, the 6x4 KMP produced some good mid range and top end results, better on the bench than the 6x4 APC gas prop.  Although the MA 6x4x3 produced slightly better top end thrust, it's mid range results dropped off considerably compared to the other two props and I know from experience that third blade does cause some drag in the air.  So it would be a matter of field testing the 6x4 KMP and 6x4 APC gas to decide which was the better performer for my flying style.

With the Turnigy AE-45 using the custom settings I found of 22.5 degrees for timing and 24 KHz of PWM frequency, again the 6x4 KMP had very good bench results, significantly more top end thrust 65 gr/2.3 oz than the 6x4 APC gas, but slightly less (15 gr) mid range power.  Mid range efficiency is pretty much the same with both these props pulling the same number of amps.  At full throttle, the extra 65 gr of thrust required 0.8 more amps drawn, so not too bad.

With the AE-45 ESC, the MA 6x4x3 has good top end thrust, again over 1000 gr (1035), but comes at a big amp penalty, drawing 40.7A or 11% more amps than the KMP prop and produces less thrust, so I don't think I would use this prop with this ESC.  Hobby King rates this as a 39.1A motor, I personally think it could handle more than that, but if I have another prop that produces more thrust for less amps, I'll go with that all day.  As well, with a significant loss of mid range power (45 gr less than the 6x4 KMP), it makes that decision even easier😊

So I am thinking about using this motor on a project I am currently pondering for the near future, so good to know I have a couple of options of props to try out, I will probably at this point go with the Turnigy AE-45 and evaluate the 6x4 KMP or 6x4 APC gas.😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

ESC Showdown #3 - Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and Turnigy AE-45A ESC - 22 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I was at the field again today for another comparison session with the Turnigy Plush 40A and the Turnigy AE-45A ESCs, this time pushing them both a little harder with a higher Kv quad racing motor.😊  I chose to experiment with the BeeRotor Z2207 2780Kv motor from RC Timer as it has a pretty good amp draw and is close in torque and overall power to the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor which is the top quad racing motor I have tested thus far.  You can read the full bench test results on my motor test spreadsheet, each motor has it's own page, so please just look along the bottom to find the BeeRotor motor.😊

Here is the flight video of today's testing.

As mentioned in the video, on the bench, this motor paired with the 6x4 APC gas prop produced about 15 gr more thrust at full throttle with the Plush ESC on default settings.  With the custom settings of 22.5 degrees for timing and 24 KHz for the PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency, the Turnigy AE-45A allowed the motor to produce about 20 gr more thrust at 50% throttle.  With the AE-45 ESC, it also pulled about 3 more amps, drawing 38.2A at full throttle.

I flew a total of 6 flights using this motor and the AE-45 ESC, I honestly couldn't see any difference in performance between it and the Plush.  Throttle response was very smooth and the BEC (battery elimination circuit) worked very well, no issues providing power to the servos when being pushed a little harder.  From what I saw today, as long as the custom settings are selected on the AE-45, it and the Plush are interchangeable performance wise.  As I mentioned in the video, my Plush ESC is a few years old and is V3.1, the current Plush sold at Hobby King when you click the link above is V4.2.  The BEC has been changed, but I have no idea whether any of the internal processing has been changed in any way to further optimize motor performance.

I will be shooting a video in the next day or so giving my overall thoughts and review of the Turnigy AE-45A and the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESCs as they compare to the Turnigy Plush which I have been using for many years😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

ESC field test showdown #2 - Turnigy Plush 40A vs Turnigy AE-45A

Hi Everyone -

A pristine winter scene...

About to get interrupted by some serious park jet noise...😎

I was out today doing some more field comparison between the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC and the Turnigy AE-45A ESC  I had done previous field testing with these two ESCs, however with factory default settings in both and a different motor.  You can read more about that at this blog post including flight video.  Here is the flight video from today's testing.

As mentioned in the video, I used default settings in the Plush as a benchmark since I have been running it that way for years with numerous different motors.  Then I ran the same setup (RC Timer FR2306 2650 Kv motor, 6x4 APC gas prop, and Gens Ace 2200 3s 45C battery) using the AE-45 with custom settings of 22.5 degrees timing and 24 KHz PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency.  As mentioned in the video, this seems to be a good custom setup for the AE-45 for most motors I am currently running.  The 2212/6 2200 Kv motor seems to like factory default settings as mentioned.  You can a bit more of a synopsis of motor testing here at this blog post.  You can also just go directly to my motor test spreadsheet, each motor has it's own tab which you will find along the bottom of the spreadsheet.

I ran about six flights through the AE-45 today with these custom settings, this motor performed really well, overall I would say that the bench test numbers translate well to the field.  As I mentioned, on the bench the custom setup with the AE-45 gave me 62 gr more thrust at 50% throttle and 102 gr more thrust at full throttle than the Plush did.  I definitely felt that the AE-45 in this configuration gave me increased mid range power and torque and better top end performance.😀

Interestingly, even though the air temp was -2C/28 F, the motor was coming down just the tiniest bit warm.  I am pushing it pretty hard, it is a 33A motor and on the bench it was drawing 33.6 amps with this prop and ESC setup on 3S.  I might have to be a bit more careful with it in the summer when the temps are mid to high 20s C.

It has taken quite a bit of time and experimentation to find these settings which I think will work well for most motors at 2600 Kv and above that I have been using with a couple of exceptions.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Monster bench test session - 18 Feb 2018 :)

Hi Everyone -

I managed to get quite a bit more bench testing done today to fill in the blanks with several of the quad racing motors I had not tested on custom settings with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A and Turnigy AE-45A ESCs.  For all the complete details, you can go to my motor test spreadsheet.  I used the 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery for all testing, links to these are on the spreadsheet.

I will go through the motors that I updated today and what I tested.  I used custom settings on both ESCs mentioned above based on testing I have done already with a few other motors.  With the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A, I used timing setting of 26.25 degrees and PWM frequency of 8 KHz.  For the Turnigy AE-45A ESC, I used timing of 22.5 degrees and PWM of 24 KHz.  I must caveat that the Plush I am currently using is the V3.1, Hobby King currently sells the V4.2, so perhaps the numbers would be better with the V4.2 than mine.

2212/6 2200 Kv

I tested this motor with the HobbyWing ESC with the custom settings above and saw an increase in the mid throttle power over the previous best combo of the AE-45A at factory default of 23 gr at a cost of a 2A increase in amp draw, but then saw a 25 gr drop in full throttle thrust.  I think for this motor, just the simple "plug and play" of using the AE-45A default settings is the best way to go.

Foxeer DATURA X2206 2700 Kv

This motor is quite interesting as the differences in thrust and amps drawn is not huge between the Turnigy Plush, HobbyWing and AE-45A ESCs.  About 20 gr more mid range thrust with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, a little bit more top end thrust with the AE, so since the AE is the least expensive of the three ESCs, this makes me happy and I would probably run this with the AE ESC.😊

BeeRotor Z2207 2780 Kv

Again, not a whole lot of difference between the three ESCs with this motor, a bit more mid range power with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, actually less top end power and it becomes quite amp hungry at full throttle with the AE ESC at full throttle producing a bit less power than the Plush.  I will have to experiment, I like that the AE does have such good results again as it is the least expensive of the three.

BrotherHobby Returner R2 2205 2800 Kv

Again, probably personal choice here, although with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs, it has slightly better mid range and full power though quite a bit more amp hungry at full throttle with both these ESCs compared to the Plush.  The numbers for the HobbyWing and AE ESCs are identical in thrust at mid and full throttle, the HobbyWing is a bit more efficient at mid and full throttle, but considering it is almost twice the price of the AE, I would probably opt to use the AE again in this case.

As I transitioned to the lower Kv motors, this is where I started to see the biggest improvement in performance compared to the numbers with the Plush.

Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv

This motor performs better at mid and full throttle with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs.  Best top end thrust with the HobbyWing (15 gr more than the AE) with the custom settings, slightly better mid range with the AE (only 10 gr increase).  This is the most expensive motor I have tested (although I got mine on sale😀) and is the most powerful at mid range and full throttle of the motors below 2700 Kv, so it is good that it performs so well with the less expensive AE ESC.

These next two RC Timer motors are seriously happy with the Turnigy AE ESC😀

RC Timer FR2306 2650 Kv

Although this motor did show very good improvement with the HobbyWing ESC, the AE performance edges it out in mid range, full throttle and price😉  It shows incredible improvement over the Plush ESC when using the AE ESC at 50% throttle, a 62 gr improvement in thrust with only a 0.5 increase in amps.  At full throttle, it improved by 102 gr!😲with a 2.7A increase in amp draw, but this takes the motor to it's limit, it is rated as a 33A motor, it is drawing 33.6A which I think will be fine, I look at it as this motor being fully optimized using the AE ESC with the custom settings as it will probably pull much less than that in the air.😊

RC Timer FR2205 2550 Kv

This is the first quad racing motor I experimented with, so I was really happy to see the increase in performance here😊  The numbers with the more expensive HobbyWing are very good and a definite improvement over the Plush, but the AE numbers are the best.  I saw an improvement of 66 gr of thrust at mid throttle for an increase of only 0.6A draw and a 111 gr increase in thrust at full throttle for only 2.3 more amps drawn😲 and the motor is still under it's amp limit of 32A😀

I don't want to draw a whole bunch of conclusions just yet until I get a chance to get out and field test most of these motors with the Turnigy AE to ensure they run smoothly in the air.  It seems that 2200-2600 Kv motors is where the biggest improvement in performance happens when using the AE ESC compared to the Plush ESCs I have been using.  This is good news as other than the Multistar Viking, these are all fairly inexpensive motor, so if pairing them with an inexpensive ESC improves their performance, that is not only optimizing their performance, but getting the best bang for the buck!😊

Other than the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor, the rest of the motors at 2700 or higher Kv thus far are fairly happy with any of the ESCs, although mid range power is typically better with the AE or HobbyWing ESCs.  However, it did take quite a bit of testing and experimenting to find this, as you can see with some of the motors I have tested, with the higher Kv motors, factory default settings with the HobbyWing and AE ESCs leave a lot to be desired.

I do have some other very high Kv motors on the way to test which perhaps will also like the HobbyWing ESCs better, but from a cost standpoint, if most of them still run really well with the Plush or AE ESCs, that will be a cost saving as the HobbyWing ESCs are very good, but also quite expensive at $40 USD.

More testing to come, but this whole process continues to be very educational😁

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Bench testing the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC - 17 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

I managed to get another round of bench testing done with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC today using the EMAX RS2306 2750 Kv motor.  This testing provided some very "educational" results😊

You can read the full details here on my motor test spreadsheet, if you look along the bottom, you will find tabs for each motor.  All the data below is based on using the 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery, links for both of these is on the spreadsheet.

Thus far, the higher Kv motors seem to like 24 KHz PWM frequency for improved mid range power, but I did one quick test with factory defaults for the AE-45 just for reference.

AE-45A ESC Timing 15 degrees, 12 KHz PWM frequency (default)

50% throttle - 13.5A/163.1W producing 530 gr/18.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 37.4A/427.9W producing 965 gr/34 oz of thrust.

Thus far, I have tested this motor with the 6x4 APC gas prop on three different ESCs, the Turnigy Plush 40A, HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A and now the Turnigy AE-45A.  From the spreadsheet, here is the performance data listed from lowest to highest.  Both the HobbyWing and AE-45 have custom settings, the Plush is at factory default.

Turnigy AE-45A Timing 22.5 degrees, 24 KHz PWM frequency

50% throttle - 17.2A/206.2W producing 610 gr/21.5 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 39.7A/451.3W producing 1005 gr/35.5 oz of thrust.

Turnigy Plush Timing low (factory default)

50% throttle - 17.2A/206.7W producing 620 gr/21.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 38.4A/435.7W producing 1040 gr/36.7 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing Platinum PRO Timing 26.25 degrees, 8 KHz PWM frequency

50% throttle - 16.7A/201.6W producing 647 gr/22.8 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 42.6A/507.1W producing 1075 gr/37.9 oz of thrust.

So the HobbyWing amps at full throttle is greater than the base rating for the ESC which I don't normally like to exceed (although it does have a 60A burst), so I will proceed with caution.  I have flown with this prop/motor/ESC combo in cooler weather already and the ESC was a bit warm, so in the summer I might have to be more cautious, find a different setting or use the Plush, more field testing required.😀

So what seems to be interesting as I collect more data with the Turnigy AE-45 and the HobbyWing and experiment with timing and PWM, none of the motors tested thus far performed well at 12 KHz PWM frequency except perhaps the 2212/6 2200 Kv, but I have to more testing with that motor.  As soon as I switched from 12 to 8 in the case of the HobbyWing or 24 in the case of the Turnigy AE, the 50% throttle power jumped significantly on the quad racing motors tested thus far.  The full throttle performance seems to be improved more significantly with the HobbyWing ESC with motors rated at 2700 Kv or more.  The performance with the one motor below 2600 Kv, the Racerstar BR2406 2600 was slightly better with the Turnigy AE and it certainly had the best mid range performance with that ESC.

So I am not going to draw any conclusions just yet until I get some more data collected both on the bench and at the field.  However, by taking the time to experiment with the different performance settings in the HobbyWing and AE-45 ESCs, even if only by a small amount, it appears I may be able to optimize the performance of several motors over the Turnigy Plush.  Not that I am going to replace all my Plush ESCs and I have to remember that I am using V3.1, perhaps the V4.2 that Hobby King sells now has better performance.  I may have to pick one up and experiment😉

Late edit:  Primarily because the curiosity was killing me, I put the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor on the test stand, 6x4 APC gas prop, Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery.  I had tested this motor with the AE-45A ESC on the bench and in the air with default settings and it gives the best power to this inexpensive motor thus far.  So I left the timing at 15 degrees and switched the PWM frequency to 24 KHz.

As you can see on the motor spreadsheet, I gained about 20 gr of thrust at 50% throttle, but lost 20 gr of thrust at full throttle compared to default settings.  Quite honestly, since this is a pretty "torquey" motor to begin with, for simplicity I would probably just keep the default settings on the AE-45 ESC for use with the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Watching drone motors being built

Hi Everyone -

This video popped up recommended to me on YouTube a few days ago, I found it very interesting the different machines used to construct the motor, but also the attention to detail.  It appears this factory is producing BrotherHobby motors, one of which I have already tested in a park jet, the BH Returner R2 2205 2800 Kv.  I have been very impressed with the quality of this motor and how much power it produces for it's small size.

I found this video quite interesting, so I thought I would share😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Bench testing Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv motor with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC - 16 Feb 2018

Hi Everyone -

Now that I have the issue solved with my Racerstar BR2406 2600 Kv motor (you can read more about that at this blog post😳), I decided to run it through some testing with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC.

You can read the full details on my motor test spreadsheet.  By scrolling along the bottom, you will find a tab that says ESC testing using this motor.  I had already run a full series using the Racerstar BR2306 2700 Kv motor, you can find the tab for that motor along the bottom of the spreadsheet as well.

By doing the testing on the BR2306 2700 motor, it gave me some clues where not to bother wasting time testing the BR2406 2600 Kv motor, but I ran the motor on the factory defaults for the Turnigy AE-45A ESC anyway (15 degrees timing, 12 KHz PWM frequency).

So, for discussion, here are some thrust results, starting first with the AE-45 on factory default settings.  Prop used for all testing is the 6x4 APC gas and the battery is the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C, you can find links for these on the motor spreadsheet.

50% throttle - 11.2A/136.5W producing 465 gr/16.4 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 30.1A/356.1W producing 920 gr/32.5 oz of thrust.

On the spreadsheet, I have highlighted in light green the best settings I would use for each ESC I have tested with this motor.  For discussion here they are, remembering that my Turnigy Plush is V3.1 and Hobby King currently carries V4.2.  I have listed from lowest to highest performance.

Turnigy Plush (timing low, factory default)

50% throttle - 11.5A/141.5W producing 487 gr/17.2 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 29.8A/352.3W producing 935 gr/33 oz of thrust.

HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC (timing 26.25 degrees/8 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 12.3A/149.7W producing 508 gr/17.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.6A/369.5W producing 948 gr/33.4 oz of thrust.

Turnigy AE-45A ESC (timing 22.5 degrees/24 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 12.7A/155.1W producing 530 gr/18.7 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 34.2A/411.6W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

So looking at all these numbers and factoring efficiency from a standpoint of how much thrust is produced for each amp drawn, they are all pretty much dead equal.  What I have learned and now look for with these smaller quad racing motors is the best and most efficient mid range power.  Due to their smaller size, they may not have the same torque as a bigger, heavier 2212 size motor, but it seems that thus far, the better mid range power makes up for this lack of size somewhat.

I know that the amp draw at the top end climbs considerably for not a whole lot of increase in top end power, but sometimes I think I have to take that as a compromise to have better power at mid range where I spend more than 80% of my time when flying.

What is interesting with both the HobbyWing and AE-45 ESCs is that as soon as I switched from the factory default PWM frequency, the mid range power jumped significantly with varying increases in top end power.  I would be interested to know what type of motor these two ESCs are set up for at the factory.  I suspect maybe helicopters?  I did see something in the comments on the AE-45 that flashing it with BL-heli firmware made it work better?  Not something I will probably try, but interesting to see how experimenting with the different settings can help to optimize the power output of the motor for what you are looking for.

Thus far, I think my workload has already been cut in half if I look to optimize the settings for each motor as factory PWM settings don't seem to be optimized for smaller, higher Kv quad and park jet motors.  It will be interesting to see if there is a natural cutoff between motors less than 2700 Kv and those at 2700 Kv or higher as the optimum settings with the AE-45 for the Racerstar BR2306 2700 Kv motor are different than the BR2406 as you can read in this blog post.

So I will continue to experiment and update the spreadsheet as I go along😊

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

ESC field test showdown - Turnigy Plush 40A and Turnigy AE-45A

Hi Everyone -

I managed to get out today and field test the Turnigy AE-45A ESC which is a new ESC to me.  This was the focus of the test session today, but after doing some bench testing a few days ago, I also wanted to compare it to the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC which has long been my "go to" ESC.  Here is the comparison video that I shot today.  After watching it a couple more times before uploading, I certainly think there was noticeably better performance with the Turnigy AE-45.

You can read my initial impressions and basic testing with the motor/prop/battery combo used in todays flights at this blog post.

After shooting the video, I flew several more flights with the Turnigy AE-45 ESC, logging 10 flights in total.  I found the throttle response to be very smooth, the BEC worked well, never had any issues with power delivery to the motor or the servos, so at this point without having done any advanced testing, the factory default settings on this ESC do seem to provide better power than the factory settings on my Turnigy Plush 40A ESC.  As I mentioned in the video, my Plush ESCs are a few years old and are version 3.1, they currently are up to version 4.2.  I know there is a difference in the BEC, I'm not sure if they did anything else to upgrade the performance of the Plush ESC from V3.1 to V4.2 however.

Quite a bit more testing still to do with this ESC, I have experimented with all the timing and PWM combos on a higher Kv motor, you can read about those results in this blog post.

Although this is quite a minor thing, just something to know if you decide to try the Turnigy AE-45 ESC, when you first plug in the battery, it runs the normal tones most ESCs do, but then it takes 2-3 seconds before it starts to initialize and run the beeps for each cell of the battery and then arm.  This is about twice as long as the Turnigy Plush, so it took me awhile to get used to so that I didn't think there was something wrong with the ESC😏

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

"Table Talk" - downsizing my recievers

Hi Everyone -

As I have mentioned in several of my videos and blog posts, I am constantly striving to set my planes up to have as much of the weight (i.e. components) concentrated close to the CG for best balance and maneuverability in my planes.  As such, this can make things a little "cramped", something which I have really been noticing with my RC Powers T50 V5.

I shot this video discussing how I have managed to downsize and lighten my receivers, primarily to save space and prevent the receiver from getting pushed or bumped too many times and perhaps cause servo or worse yet ESC leads to come disconnected.

I won't bother putting the links to all my transmitter and receiver gear as that isn't really important to the discussion, mostly I just wanted to pass this along if you were looking for ways to make more space in your electronics bay or even lighten things up by a gram or two😊

Here is a picture showing one receiver still intact, then the shell removed and the bare receiver board.  The screws are pretty tiny, I had to use a micro screwdriver like you would use on the screws on eye glasses.😎

Before applying the heat shrink, I put a tiny dab of hot glue to help prevent the antenna wire being pulled off the receiver board as it would be a delicate job soldering it back on if it survived the crash should it come off in the air!😱  Where the screwdriver is pointing in the next two pictures is essentially where I put the hot glue.

Here is the heat shrink before heating, as I mention in the video, it is 41mm wide, the receiver board is about 21 mm long.  Hobby King sells the heat shrink I bought as being 25 mm heat shrink with a 2:1 shrink rate. 

Finished product top and bottom, you can see where I cut out a bit of a relief to allow the pins to be open where all the servo and ESC plugs attach.  Depending on how hot your heat gun is, it might be prudent to either hold the gun away from the receiver a bit or only heat for short periods at a time so as not to overheat the receiver board and cause it to be damaged.  My heat gun isn't too hot, I only kept it on for a few seconds at a time until the heat shrink tightened up sufficiently.

So by removing the case, I saved myself 2 gr in weight, my current receiver is 4 mm thinner that it was with the case, 3mm narrower and 3mm shorter.  I know this doesn't seem like a lot, but when things are tight inside the electronics bay of my park jet, every little bit helps😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom.😎

Cheers,

Scott

Racerstar BR2406S 2600 Kv motor - Handle with care :)

Hi Everyone -

I have been a fan of the Racerstar BR2406S 2600 Kv motor since I started experimenting with quad racing motors in park jets.  It is definitely the best motor I have tested under 2700 Kv and probably due to the fact it has the widest stator (24mm) compared to any of the other motors I've tested, it has the most low end torque. 

Plus, it is quite inexpensive for the power it produces, regularly priced at $12.87 USD from Banggood, at the time of writing on sale for $10.56.

So a couple days ago, I was taking it out of a plane to do some more bench testing with a new ESC I got from Hobby King, the Turnigy AE-45A ESC.  I must have pushed a bit too hard on the base of the motor removing the mounting screws as when I tried to spin the motor up on the thrust stand, it was binding😖  I pressed on and did the ESC testing with another motor and then came back to inspect the 2406 motor.

It took me awhile to see what had happened and I forgot to take a picture, but in one spot where I had removed the screw from the "X" mount, I must have pushed against the bottom plate of the motor with either the screw head or the screwdriver.  Where you see the bare metal, this small area was bent up and binding just a bit against the bottom of the bell.

Fortunately, by using a very thin bladed screwdriver and gentle pressure, I managed to bend the bottom plate back flat and the motor runs smooth again.

The outside diameter of the bell is 30mm and from center to center, the standard "X" mount holes are 35mm apart, so a tight tolerance between the mounting hold and the side of the bell.

I think I remember watching a review of this motor or one very similar to it on KababFPV's YouTube channel that the metal used for the bell and base of this motor is quite cheap and I would agree, however, I guess you get what you pay for and thus far the performance of this motor has made up for the cheaper materials.

So just a word of caution if you have one of these motors and are using a standard "X" mount to put it in a park jet or other plane to be aware of how big a screw you use and to be careful not to press against the base plate with the screw or screw driver.😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

DYS and Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv bench test showdown

Hi Everyone -

I have been slowly catching up with bench testing since receiving my new thrust stand😊

For over a year now, I have been using the DYS 2208/7 2600 Kv motor in several of my park jets and have been enjoying it's power and versatility running a few different props on 3S.  Through my recent period of bench and field testing motors, I have also been experimenting with the Multistar Viking 2208 2600 Kv quad racing motor.  Here is a picture of the two motors side by side, the Viking motor on the left, the DYS motor on the right.

Some basic comparisons before talking about bench and field performance.

Weight - With all the mounting hardware and props, the DYS motor weighs 56 gr/2.0 oz, the Viking motor weighs 52 gr/1.8 oz;

Price - The DYS motor currently sells for $17.22 USD from Banggood, shipping is free.  The Viking motor sells for $28.14 from HobbyKing and shipping is not free.  Fortunately, I picked mine up on sale for $16.10, so that was a bonus😀

The DYS comes with connectors already attached, so it is ready to go out of the package.  The Viking motor requires you have and can attach your own connectors.

Both accept the standard 16x19 mm bolt pattern "X" mount for installing in a park jet.

So how did they perform on the bench?  You can find all the details here on my motor test spreadsheet, but I will discuss a few things below.  I will compare the numbers for the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC, 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery (links to all of these are on the spreadsheet).

DYS 2208 2600

50% throttle - 11.6A/141W producing 485 gr/17.1 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 28.4A/330.5W producing 915 gr/32.3 oz of thrust.

Multistar Viking 2208 2600

50% throttle - 13.5A/163.2W producing 570 gr/20.1 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 31.9A/384.7W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

Both motors are equally as efficient (ie producing equal ratios of thrust to amps drawn) at 50% and 100% throttle.

So you can see a very significant increase in performance with the Viking motor.

So diving into the specs a bit deeper, the DYS motor I'm assuming has 7 turns of wire around each stator pole.  It is a darker color than on the Viking (sorry, because of the motor construction of both, very hard to see in a picture) and does look like it might be very slightly thicker.  The Viking motor seems to have a bit neater wire application around the stator arms, not that the DYS is sloppy, the Viking is just neater.  The magnets are flat on the DYS motor, the air gap between the magnets is the same as the Viking, the gap between the stator and the magnets is noticeably larger on the DYS motor than the Viking.  Bearings on both seem equally smooth.

The DYS motor is rated for 2-3S, shows a max amp rating of 43.1 using a 7x5 prop on 3S.  Whenever I see the top amp rating pulled from a chart as the max amp rating, I get a little suspicious, the manufacturer should probably have a bit better idea than that I would think.  It is also showing a max wattage of 478W which again they just pulled from their test table.

The Viking motor just seems a little better finished with tighter tolerances.  The magnets are N50 which are fairly strong, the industry standard for higher end motors currently is N52 (higher the number, stronger the magnet)  The magnets are curved and the tolerance between the stator and magnets is very tight.  It has a top amp rating of 39.1 which seems like a strange number, it says it is rated for 4S and 630W which is a big increase in wattage over the DYS motor.

The Viking motor is definitely more of a racing motor which you would hope so for the price😏  If you look at the thrust numbers using the higher end HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC with the settings I found optimum for higher Kv motors, the thrust jumped to 1015 gr/35.8 oz, an increase of 45 gr of thrust over the Plush performance.  With the DYS motor, it only jumped up to 935 gr/33.0 oz, an increase of only 20 gr of thrust over the Plush settings.

I suspect that the Viking motor is running much closer to it's rated Kv, perhaps the DYS motor not so much.  I have run the DYS motor quite a bit with the Master Airscrew 6x4x3 prop and it handled that well, not as fast as the 6x4 APC gas prop, but gave a bit softer feel, almost like the throttle had a little bit of expo if you just wanted to cruise around.

So price does become a bit of an issue, it is worth a little less than 5% increase in performance for a 60+% increase in cost?  I guess only the purchaser can decide.  I have had some quality control issues with the DYS motors, 3 of 4 I purchased run about equal, one has very stiff bearings and runs about 20% less powerful than the other three.  

The Viking motor seems much better made and did perform better on the bench and I think has a lot more potential for power with some experimentation with props, batteries and ESCs, plus it is rated to handle 4S.  If you find it on sale like I did at cheaper than the DYS motor, it is definitely worth a try😀

So next up, time to put them in a plane and do a showdown at the field 😉

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Turnigy AE-45A ESC - testing timing and PWM combinations

Hi Everyone -

I have been catching up on some testing with the Turnigy AE-45A ESC the last couple days😊  You can read more about my initial impressions and testing with factory defaults and the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor at this blog post.  That motor performed very well with the factory defaults, however, as you can see in the discussion below, it took a little more research to find the right setting for a higher Kv motor.

Like I did with the HobbyWing Platinum PRO 40A ESC, I decided to run through the entire series of combinations of timing (8 different settings) and PWM (pulse width modulation) frequency (2 of those), so a total of 16 different runs to find the best combination.  I had wanted to use the Racerstar BR2406S 2600 Kv motor like I did with the HobbyWing test, but it wasn't running that great (problem now fixed and will be the subject of another article😏)  If you want to read about the advanced testing on the HobbyWing ESC, please go to this blog article.  For this series of testing, I used the Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor as it is quite similar in performance to the BR2406 2600 and is the same brand.

So here is what the manual says about timing.

Timing: 0/3.75/7.5/11.25/15/18.75/22.5/26.25 degrees, default is 15 degrees.  Usually, low timing is suitable for most motors.  But there are many difference among structures and parameters of different motors so please try and select the most suitable timing value according to the motor you are just using.  The correct timing value makes the motor run smoothly.  And generally, higher timing value brings out higher output power and higher speed.

So similar to the HobbyWing which also has 15 degrees as default timing, if low timing is suitable for most motors, why did they choose a setting almost in the middle as default?!😕  Also, if you don't have a thrust test setup, how are you going to know what timing will work best with the "motor you are just using"?!

Here is what the manual says about PWM timing.  Note that this ESC has 12 and 24 KHz as options, the HobbyWing has 8 and 12 KHz.

PWM frequency:  12 KHz/24 KHz, default is 12 HKz.  For motors with high Kv (high speed) and many poles, the 24 KHz PWM frequency may let them work more smoothly.  But the higher PWM frequency will make the ESC to be hotter.

Again, almost word for word to what the HobbyWing manual says😏

All the details are available here on my motor test spreadsheet.

For the sake of discussion, let's look at a few of the numbers.  Here is the performance with the Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor, 6x4 APC gas prop using the Gens Ace 2200 3S 45C battery.  Links to these can be found on the spreadsheet.  This motor based on the specs on the Banggood website is supposedly a 35A max load current motor, but that is based on their test charts, perhaps the motor can be pushed harder, but I used this number in decisions I discuss later.

Factory default (15 degrees timing/12 KHz PWM frequency)

50% throttle - 10.7A/133.6W producing 480 gr/16.9 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 34.7A/399.4W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

Compared to the Turnigy Plush (factory default settings) and HobbyWing (with the custom settings), the 50% throttle power is about 25 gr lower.

As you will note on the spreadsheet, at times the high end thrust was up and down, but mostly in the neighborhood of about 955 gr or so regardless of timing or PWM.  One thing you can see with the 50% throttle thrust is that as soon as the PWM is changed to 24 Khz, the mid range power is much better until the timing gets to the two highest settings then it falls off considerably.  So interestingly for a higher Kv motor, I would not go with default PWM setting right away because of the increase in mid range power.  Although I do like to rip around at full throttle pretty regularly, I spend about 80% of my time at about 60% throttle, so best mid range power is important to me.

So after switching the PWM to 24 Khz, here are a couple of timing settings that stood out for comparison. 

Timing 3.75 degrees

50% throttle - 14.6A/176.5W producing 510 gr/18 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 33.9A/397.6W producing 960 gr/33.9 oz of thrust.

Timing 15 degrees (factory default timing)

50% throttle - 11.3A/138.6W producing 510 gr/18 oz of thrust;

100% throttle - 35.7A/424.8W producing 955 gr/33.7 oz of thrust.

So keeping in mind what I mentioned earlier about my flying style, even though I would be drawing more amps for a little less (5 gr) thrust with the timing at 15 degrees, I would select that as my timing with 24 KHz as the PWM.  The reason being is that when I look at the 50% throttle setting, even though the thrust produced is the same, with 3.75 degrees as the timing setting, it pulls close to 30% more amps to produce this power!😲  Given that I spend about 80% of my time close to this throttle setting, the amp draw at mid range would be too high for my liking with 3.75 degrees timing.  I may experiment with this at the field, but will start off with the 15 degrees timing/24 Khz PWM combo.

Of note I think is that this custom setting I discovered produces almost identical numbers to the Turnigy Plush default settings.  The HobbyWing 40A ESC with the custom settings I found for that for high Kv motors produces more top end thrust, but about the same mid range as the AE and Plush ESCs.

So again, it was interesting testing.  I guess what makes me scratch my head again is that without a thrust test setup and watt meter, how is your average person going to find out these optimal custom settings that they encourage you to experiment with in the manual?😕

Field testing to start very soon😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

Turnigy AE-45A ESC initial impressions and basic testing

Hi Everyone -

I received a couple of new Turnigy AE-45A ESCs from Hobby King in the mail a couple of days ago to test and fit into my park jet power systems😊  rcplanepirate and I have had a couple discussions about the Turnigy AE line of ESCs as he uses a 65A for the bulk of his test videos.

Instructions are on both sides of an 8.5 x 11" sheet of paper, obviously translated from another language, but understandable.😏  It comes with no connectors for either the motor or ESC, but that is pretty standard.  The battery leads and three ESC leads are the same as most ESCs this size, however the leads that go to the receiver are about 50% thicker than most.

Without connectors, it weighs 42 gr/1.5 oz.

Just basic labeling and clear heat shrink protecting it.

As you can see when you click on the link in the first paragraph, it is rated for 45A continuous, 50A for a 10 second burst.  Some comparisons with the Turnigy Plush 40A ESC.  Note that the AE-45 has a much bigger heat sink, the heat sinks on both ESCs are covered by their labels, so I would say the heat sink on the AE-45 is about 50% bigger than the Turnigy Plush.

Side on view, everything looks about the same. 

Weight with connectors is 48 gr/1.7 oz which is about 4 gr heavier than the Turnigy Plush or HobbyWing ESCs I have used previously.  As mentioned, the larger heat sync and thicker receiver wires probably account for this.

I didn't bother checking it with either of my ESC programming cards as it has numerous timing settings similar to the HobbyWing Platinum PRO as well as different PWM (pulse width modulation) frequencies.

For timing, it can be programmed for 0/3.75/7.5/11.25/15/18.75/22.5/26.25 degrees (the same as the HobbyWing, factory default is again 15 degrees)

It has different PWM settings than the HobbyWing, 12 KHz and 24 KHz with 12 being the factory default.  By comparison, the HobbyWing has 8 and 12 KHz with 12 being factory default.  The PWM for the Turnigy Plush is not listed and low timing (factory default) for the Plush is 3.75 degrees.

I ran one quick test with AE-45A ESC using the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor, 6x4 APC gas prop and Gens Ace 2200 3S 45 C battery, links to all these components and the data is available on my motor test spreadsheet.

For discussion sake, when you look at the performance of this motor with the same battery, with factory default settings for the Turnigy Plush, HobbyWing and Turnigy AE, the Turnigy AE is better at both mid and full throttle.

At 50% throttle, it produces 20 grams more thrust than it's closest competitor (Plush) and does it slightly more efficiently when comparing thrust versus amps drawn.  At full throttle, the AE-45 produces 38 more grams that it's closest competitor (HobbyWing) and again does it more efficiently comparing thrust versus amps drawn.

I have done some more advanced testing with a higher Kv motor, but I still need to evaluate that data to see what is what as I tested every timing setting and PWM frequency combo.  I used the Racerstar BR2306S 2700 Kv motor to do this, so when you go to the spreadsheet, you can scroll along the bottom to find the tab for that motor to see the data.

Based on the numbers with factory default, this Turnigy AE seems very well suited to optimizing the power of the lower KV 2212/6 2200 Kv motor😊

More testing to come.😀

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott

"Table Talk" - Park Jet power system basics

Hi Everyone -

I recently shot this video discussing my thoughts based on lessons learned about park jet power systems over the past 5+ yrs.😊

I am sure that some of my rules of thumb and ways of doing things differ from what other folks do, and that is fine.  I probably err a bit on the side of caution as I have watched far too many planes crash in my early days as a park jet pilot due to over building, mismatching power systems or mismatching components within a power system.  So while it is part of this hobby to experiment, if you are just starting off, I am hoping that by using some of this information as guidelines it will set you up for the best success with less frustration and money wasted.😀

If you are interested in more details on the inner workings of a brushless outrunner motor, I shot this video awhile back discussing the 2212/6 2200 Kv motor in depth.

As I mention in the video, I think it is a good idea to honestly assess what sort of performance you want from your park jet before you build it so that you can select the right plane to match the power setup you have.  I made the mistake of far too often selecting a plane that was too big (large wingspan) or built too heavy for my power setup which resulted in high wing loading, insufficient power, both of which can spell disaster for an enjoyable flight experience.😞

Here are links to the items I used as "training aids" in the video😊

• Prop - 6x4 Aerostar Composite propeller (Hobby King knockoff of the 6x4 APC electric prop);
• Motor - Banggood 2212/6 2200 Kv (discussed in the motor video above, you can also read more about it at this blog post)
• Electronic speed controllers - Turnigy Plush 30A ESC and Turnigy Plush 40A ESC;
• Battery - Zippy Flightmax 2200 3S 40C (as I mention, a bit of overkill for most park jet setups, but the extra C rating I think has allowed my batteries to last for a very long time😀)
• Battery monitor for checking the health of your batteries, this link is for a two pack, one for the field, one for your bench😉; and 
• Wattmeter from Banggood.

If you are interested in the bench test numbers for the motors that I currently use in my park jets or have tested recently, please check out my motor spreadsheet.

I hope that if you have been struggling with matching your park jet and power system that this video and blog post have been helpful.  I'm certainly not trying to shove my way of doing things down anybody's throat, bur rather pass on hard lessons learned so that perhaps it will make your park jet journey a little bit easier.  I have also written a series of articles on this blog titled "Which Park Jet for me?" where I share my thoughts on different park jets and park jet designs that you may also find helpful😊

As mentioned in the video, here are a couple of examples of planes that weigh about 21.5 oz/610 gr using the power system discussed in the first video above.

Park Jet noise...the "other" sound of freedom😎

Cheers,

Scott